推特内容警告算法、股权审计、政客炒股与美联储下一步

Speaker 1 (00:00:00): Let's talk about the sweaters. Okay? Let David let's start with you because I love it. I love it. David, I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:06): love it. David Sacks (00:00:06): I decide to up my sweater game for Chamath. This is Tom Ford. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:10): Love it. Tom Ford? David Sacks (00:00:11): Tom Ford. The buttons are made out of endangered rhino horn. Jason Calacanis (00:00:17): We just lost a third of the audience. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:19): So my sweater oh, is a is a very light Italian cashmere made by a company called Doriani, Doriani Cashmere. This right here is doing plugs for our cars. Speaker 1 (00:00:30): -- David Friedberg (00:00:30): monetizing the all in pod. Jason Calacanis (00:00:31): There we go. Doraann cashmere just got afraid. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:34): This here. This right here is a little young calf leather, very soft, very soft. And the buttons like David's are made from shark fin. David Friedberg (00:00:45): And for those of you at home who would like to spend a $150 and stay warm, may I recommend the marine layer? You can find it on Union Street jacket. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:54): I mean, how how to find Jason Calacanis (00:00:55): the jacket on Church Street? How to up Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:59): to this sweater Karen listening to this? Sweater Karen, if you're listening Speaker 1 (00:01:02): -- Jason Calacanis (00:01:02): Spider Karen. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:03): I mean, you must Jason Calacanis (00:01:04): never revealed. Sweta Karan got back to me, and she was like, oh my god. He's so dented. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:08): I think I know who she is. Sweta Karan can kiss my brown ass. Jason Calacanis (00:01:12): Oh, So I Jake comes home last night. I kid you not. She's like, you I I don't like you in the t shirts. I got you some sweaters, and I because, you know, we're going to the mountains for the for the holiday. And I was like, did you watch the podcast about the sweater? She's like, no. I don't listen to your podcast. I was like, okay. Fair enough. And I'm like, I'm looking at these things through all these boxes, and she's got this bunch of sweaters I started right now. I was like, what did you spend on this? She said $3000. I was like, I'm not comfortable spending $3000 on a sweater. a tapest alone, 8 of them, which you said it was 3 1000 for Ollie. David Sacks (00:01:40): Yeah. Shamath is like, is that a sleeve? David Friedberg (00:01:42): That's a Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:43): it's like a 3 o'clock Jason Calacanis (00:01:44): for Ollie truck. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:45): four buttons and a waistband? David Sacks (00:01:47): That might be a mess for Chmov. Jason Calacanis (00:01:50): I I think that's the boxes. Somebody came in with Speaker 1 (00:01:52): 3000. Jason Calacanis (00:01:54): So I got my 3 quarter sift, and I'm feeling good. I'm feeling really good. I feel pretty sexy, and then I'll be honest. The weather winter's wide. Rainman David Sanders. David Sacks (00:02:07): And it said We open source it to the fans in a Hey, everybody. Jason Calacanis (00:02:11): Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Y'all in podcast. Yes. breaking into the top 50 podcast week after week because of you, the amazing audience, telling your friends Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:27): about the podcast. too weak. So it's week week. Alright. Jason Calacanis (00:02:30): Week. That's what I said. Week after week. David Friedberg (00:02:32): A week and a week. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:33): A week and a week. Jason Calacanis (00:02:34): For 2 weeks, he's hitting the top 40 podcast episodes in the world. Thanks to the fans. With me, of course, the dictator himself in a amazing sweater. Light Light Cashmere Gile. The Sultan of Science. I found out from his mom, she much prefers the Sultan science to Queen of Kenwaso. That's where we're going with going forward. David Friedberg, who had a great party up in beep, And I really enjoyed going. And Saks who didn't go to beep's party or to Friedberg's party, he stayed home and played chess on his iPhone. Rainman himself, David Sachs. Welcome to the pod, everybody. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:03:16): Okay. You want me to do New York service? David Friedberg (00:03:17): My one true bet the Jason Calacanis. Jason Calacanis (00:03:20): True. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:03:20): No. That's not true. I I really wanted to come, but Matt's breastfeeding, and so I couldn't come. David Friedberg (00:03:24): The helipad was shut down. Timok couldn't land. David Sacks (00:03:27): You were getting breastfed. Oh, Jason Calacanis (00:03:32): game. There was, like, was there a curb you're through oh, no. It was this great show called Afterlife from Ricky Gervais. there's literally a scene in it where a woman they work for a local newspaper that's going out of business, and they're going to do local stories And the big story in town is a woman is making pudding, incredibly delicious pudding, and it's from her breast milk. and they go and cover the story. Anyway, I'll just leave it at that. It's a pretty amazing story. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:04): Do you wanna know my 2 New York stories or not? Jason Calacanis (00:04:07): Let's hear it. What were you saying? You had a helicopter story? What's that? David Friedberg (00:04:10): Helicopter story. Speaker 1 (00:04:10): Helicopter is Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:11): also New York story. So I went to Deepdale to play golf with a certain well known individual, and we chopper we chopper back. Jason Calacanis (00:04:24): a finance individual? Polymedia. Well known political individual. Oh. Okay. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:30): So David Sacks (00:04:30): this is not a rock enroller. You do not wanna step foot and a helicopter with a rock and roll star. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:35): No, Dope. But so here so here's my story, which is why I I I totally freaked out about helicopters, and I can't this was 8 years ago. We played deep deal which is just, you know, outside New York, get in this the chopper lands in the middle of the thing. I was like okay, that's fine. You know, And we're going, and I'm already feeling kinda skittish. I don't like helicopters. Get to the east side heliport, and the east side heliport is basically right by the east river. And so the helicopter descends and one of the skis doesn't actually land on the fucking oops thing. And so he goes, it does a little tilty poops, and then the guy comes back up and then he lands. You I'm honestly, like, I have never been more scared in my life. Alright. Jason Calacanis (00:05:18): That's it. When I was like, that's it. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:05:20): Never won. Jason Calacanis (00:05:21): Any these. It's a bestie ban for life for making a pack here. Nobody in fucking conferences. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:05:25): It's crazy. So that's why I'm on New York. Last New York story was I was there 2 days ago or for the last couple of days. or Sam in the middle of it in the middle of this Palmy Karan breakout. By the way, had a beautiful dinner after the game, Draymond, Kevin Dred, me, bunch of friends. Did you go to the game? No. We went to the private room at Carbon. It was so brutal though, I have to tell you, I feel so disgusting with myself. I had a work dinner. and I have sushi at the work dinner. And then, you know, DrayTeks after the game, he's like, hey, look we're all having dinner at Carbone. I said okay, I'll I'll head through. I went to the hotel. I called Matt, and I said, I'm brushing my teeth. And she said, but you're going out. And I said, yes. But if I brush my teeth, I'm not going to eat a second dinner. Speaker 1 (00:06:08): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:08): dinner. And I thought, you know and then but I made the key mistake. Uh-oh. But I didn't floss. So I was unfossed, but I brush my teeth. Jason Calacanis (00:06:17): Okay. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:17): I show up and fucking I lose it. And -- Yes. Speaker 1 (00:06:20): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:20): wine and dessert and bread and pasta pasta Jason Calacanis (00:06:23): pasta. Uh-oh. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:24): It was really brutal. And by 3 AM, I stumble home. And I felt so bad because I had to wake up at, like, you know, 8 o'clock in the morning. No. My first meeting was a 7:45. Congratulations to stuff -- I Speaker 1 (00:06:36): -- -- by the way. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:37): Incredible. No. He's the shooter of all time. He's a virtuoso. Yeah. Anyways, that was my that was my New York story. Jason Calacanis (00:06:45): Yeah. I I gained Here's my here's my Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:47): car loan. I gained 1 kilo. 2.2 pounds I gained Jason Calacanis (00:06:50): in 2 days. Here's my car bone story. hardest thing to hardest reservation to get in New York. Saks is like, Jake, I'll need to help me in favor. What's the best place in New York to do a closing dinner? I'm like, I got you. I got my guy. get my guy on the horn. My guy's like, okay. I got you. Carbone, Friday fucking night, 8 o'clock. Hardest taking to New York. You know what Saks does? Goes dark. Friday afternoon, 1 PM. He's like, yeah. We're not gonna make it. I'm like Speaker 1 (00:07:17): -- Jason Calacanis (00:07:17): Oh my god. My friend is like, Jay Cal. Your guy burned the carbon res? David Sacks (00:07:23): That was the Bird IPO. I was gonna take the founder out to dinner that night carbone, and then it turned into, like, the big group dinner with, like, thirty people. So it moved over to -- Well, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:07:32): by the way, the the the the private room, which is, like, you know, not in the but it's, like, a little bit on the side. It only fits, like, 15, 20 people. So it's not like you you can and and that's that's then it's really tight. Jason Calacanis (00:07:44): How how what let me ask you a question. What was Steph's how did Steph feel? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:07:50): No. Steph wasn't there. Draymond, Kevin, me, Benny Fowler Morales. But just a bunch of You Jason Calacanis (00:07:56): say Kevin, Kevin Durant? David Sacks (00:07:57): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:07:58): Kevin Durant, still friendly with Speaker 1 (00:08:01): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:01): He's honestly, he's he's such Jason Calacanis (00:08:03): a great guy. I love Kevin. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:05): He he really he is really, really, really a great guy. Wish he had stayed. Super super sensitive cool. These David Sacks (00:08:11): friends are here with -- Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:08:12): Yeah. He's always Speaker 1 (00:08:12): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:12): All good. Speaker 1 (00:08:13): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:13): always. He's always friends Jason Calacanis (00:08:14): with it. Speaker 1 (00:08:14): -- Jason Calacanis (00:08:14): that when they had their blow up, it was more like their brothers, And it was just a little David Sacks (00:08:19): bit sketchy. Speaker 1 (00:08:19): -- David Sacks (00:08:19): when you started talking like Joe Pesci? You Speaker 1 (00:08:23): -- David Sacks (00:08:24): Did did Kevin Durant ever start talking like Joe Pesci? Jason Calacanis (00:08:28): Hey. It's Mike Baseball. Alright. It was an eventful week on Twitter. We're only one week into the new Twitter CEO's reign. Jack is gone. And already, David Sacks has been flagged. It's a guy it can't be a coincidence that you were talking about them flagging accounts at the end of free speech. and then pull it up on the screen, everybody. Investors should be spending their time Finding good investments, not endlessly debating, interest rates inflation, and tax policy, but that's the uncertainty Washington has created. It's a great tweet. I like that tweet actually. And then the flag, the conversation from Saks has been flagged Some conversations can get heavy. Don't forget the human behind the screen. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:16): Do you think that this is that's machine learned, or do you think that that's an editor that goes in there in actually which is manually flags. David Friedberg (00:09:23): Machine learned? David Sacks (00:09:23): No. Right there. I think it's a great question. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:25): But what it but what is in there that actually trigger words debating? Washington? Interest rates, tax policy, Washington. I'm not sure I'm not sure that you could build or Jason Calacanis (00:09:37): maybe it's the ratio. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:38): I don't I don't know how you would build a function that would weight this in a way where this could get flagged of all the things you could say with those words. This is so benign. David Friedberg (00:09:44): Well, I think it's the kinda it seems to be this thing's trying to ward off bullying attacks on Saks, which I don't think Saks needs to be too worried about. Jason Calacanis (00:09:53): Alright. because you're telling this to people who would reply. David Sacks (00:09:55): You're saying it's there to protect me. David Friedberg (00:09:57): it's to protect you. It's one of those things where they're, like, trying to get people to not insult you in the comments. Jason Calacanis (00:10:02): You're talking about that too much crap. David Friedberg (00:10:03): Do you get a do you get a lot of insults and comments on your tweets? David Sacks (00:10:06): Oh, undoubtedly. But -- So Jason Calacanis (00:10:08): could you be blanket in here? Speaker 1 (00:10:09): -- David Sacks (00:10:09): this this tweet's comments section were was pretty benign. Jason Calacanis (00:10:12): Oh, right. It may not be about the tweet. It might be about the replies. So maybe David Sacks (00:10:16): that you can't -- -- that hot. This wasn't that hot. I think Jamal might be onto something. You know, Michelle Taylor got the same label around the same day for a tweet that seemed totally innocuous too. Mhmm. So what I wonder about is, you know, is this label to protect us or is it a way is it sort of a passive aggressive way for Snowflake at Twitter to, like, label people they don't like and sort of suggest they're vaguely disreputable. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:10:43): I don't think it's that. I don't think it's overall. Jason Calacanis (00:10:45): See, it's a right there. It's a left wing because it's a it's the it's the lids going after the the -- No. No. Sacks. You're I haven't David Sacks (00:10:51): seen any liberals getting I haven't seen any, like, left wing people being there's, David Friedberg (00:10:54): like, multiple play. -- a blanket attempt to try to kinda mute the tone a little bit. across the the debating that happens and the comments that come across in the replies, and I think they're just trying to, like, get everyone to tone it down a bear. I think it's really interesting Chamath Palihapitiya (00:11:07): before you tweet it. It'd be really interesting to know whether this was algorithmic or it was editorial. because I think if it's editorial, It does actually I don't think it's as extreme as what David just said, but it skews more in the realm of, like, people with an axe to grind can flag one thing over another or not. Right? But if it's algorithmic, I think that that algorithm probably just needs a lot of tweaking because it's not Jason Calacanis (00:11:27): Well, anyway, this doesn't it say David Friedberg (00:11:29): that there's a person behind the tweet? It's like, trying to get people to not say Speaker 1 (00:11:33): -- Jason Calacanis (00:11:33): The more to talk about what the warning the warning is charming. The warning is charming. Nice to chase. David Friedberg (00:11:38): It's try it's trying to get jealous. Speaker 1 (00:11:39): -- David Friedberg (00:11:39): be nice to each other. David Sacks (00:11:40): It's ridiculous. Jason Calacanis (00:11:41): It's like your mom inserting herself and being like, now remember Speaker 1 (00:11:43): -- David Sacks (00:11:44): It's it's there to suggest that there might be something wrong with the content that's being post Jason Calacanis (00:11:49): Well, you David Sacks (00:11:50): know what? In other words in other words, the content is so triggering that, you know, it needs warning labels. David Friedberg (00:11:55): Do you guys think that per eternalism has a role on social networks to try and mollify the the kind of discourse being too acrimonious, like David Sacks (00:12:04): I think we need some some of the transparency that Jack Dorsey repeatedly promised at all the congressional hearings. Remember when he got a hold up there? He promised that they would give more transparency about the way that their algorithms worked, where is that? And it hasn't been delivered up. They promised it. Now Jack George has skipped out of town And there's a new guy in charge. Well, we need to know how these algorithms work because they are pressing their thumb on the scale you know, of debate in the marketplace for ideas by suggesting that some ideas are sketchier than others. Jason Calacanis (00:12:35): should just put here this was algorithmically done based they should explain it. Under or there should be a little question mark. You hover the question mark. Based on the words in the thread, it feels like things are getting heated here. We did this with an algorithm. Or users reported this as a heated thread, so we put this here. Or Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:52): A human being -- -- decided. Jason Calacanis (00:12:53): No. We decided. -- decided. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:12:54): But you want it to be an open marketplace of ideas, but the fact is it's Twitter's marketplace of ideas. And Facebook is Facebook's marketplace of ideas. And at the end of the day, I don't think you're gonna get away from any of these centralized social networks having anything but some degree of moderation to play a role in Speaker 1 (00:13:09): -- Jason Calacanis (00:13:10): And a related thing, they didn't just target Saks. Also, Chamath, you didn't see this, but they flagged one of your tweets just this afternoon. Pull it up. As you can see here, it's a slightly different one. It says layers are for play tires. This conversation will drift to $5000 sweaters. So a big warning for Tremonta just and for the people replying, be careful. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:31): this -- Well, that that must be that must be then that must have been human in Jason Calacanis (00:13:36): human history. For sure. And this one came in or proff g. another one came in for Proctis. So and in this case, I think they're actually trying to think about the public good. This guy is full of shit. You thought JCPenney would beat Amazon. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:50): How many how many hours of masterclass Adobe Photoshop did you take to to get this to the joke? Jason Calacanis (00:13:55): For my I didn't make my meme team did. I'm convinced that there's 2 ways to raise your next fund in Silicon Valley. 1, have one of the top 50 podcasts in the world. or 2 have a strong meme game, and I'm going for both. Sachs now has a warning on his. And this one they put on your profile page, David Sacks (00:14:13): that's great. This is crazy. warning this person's interesting things to say. If you if you're too interesting, you get labeled now. It's really crazy. No. I saw Jacob saw Jacob having too much fun with this. I'm like, I gotta do it Jason Calacanis (00:14:24): on this side? Like, I need a meme team. Yeah. Exactly. If anybody out there, I don't care if you're I need a comedian. I'm I'm willing to pay on a pay per meme, a pay per viral, whatever it takes. Okay. In a related story, Democrats want racial equity audits at Tech Companies. According to the Washington Free Beacon, which, Saks, correct me if I'm wrong, that's some sort of wacky right wing publication. David Sacks (00:14:50): Never heard of it. Jason Calacanis (00:14:51): Okay. Washington Friedberg beacon. If instituted orders would have veto power over every product or initiative that's not An exaggeration is what the story says. When proposal from house Democrats would find companies 20,000 a day for not completing biennial, independent racial equity audits, a left wing nonprofit called Color of Change is pushing for these audits. Last week, their present call for independent auditors We've had new products from tech companies before they're released in front of Congress. The 2018 color of change suddenly pushed Facebook into completing an audit. They call for more restrictions on Trump's post. clotrange itself pushed for Trump to be permanently banned from the platform. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:15:30): Just so you know, this is exactly the the the rough version of what happened to Microsoft. In their DOJ settlement, their antitrust settlement was effectively an oversight where lawyers at the DOJ were the product managers and had not effectively beetle right, but you had to approve product features before you could push them for 10 years. You know, this is essentially what caused bombers rain just be so, you know, in Yamana. This is like you couldn't do anything because, like, you had you had a plan to do something, and you'd have to go to these random folks who didn't really have the context to make a a a a decision. one way or the Ethereum feature. So, I mean, the idea that they would do this is a pretty it's pretty crazy. Jason Calacanis (00:16:06): I need a point of clarification here. I've heard the term racial audits or racial equity audits. My understanding of those were to understand the composure of the company in terms of, you know, the diversity in the company, but this is something different. This is in the product to make sure the product isn't racist? Can products be racist? What what's an example of a product being racist? I don't understand what they would find. David Sacks (00:16:33): Let me unpack this for you. Okay. What they are basically saying is that these big companies and, for example, they've called on Google to conduct one of these audits. They want all these big companies conduct these audits. These so called auditors are actually political consultants who are members of the Democratic Party who are friends of the senators who are pushing this. They're political activists. Jason Calacanis (00:16:54): Oh, it's a grift. David Sacks (00:16:55): And it's partly a grift, but it's more than that. Because, you know, when you conduct an audit, let's just take this word audit for a second. Okay? you bring in a big 5 accounting firm, and they will check your numbers according to generally accepted accounting principles gap and make sure that the numbers are what you've ordered them to be. That is the purpose of an audit. And if the auditor ever says that you've done anything wrong like you have to fix it, there's no choice or you can appeal to some other auditor and have them redo the work okay, according to these generally accepted principles. With an equity audit, what exactly are the principles that are being enforced or checked here? There is no generally accepted list of equity principles that must be enforced to these companies. Basically, you have to do whatever this political activist tells you to do. I mean, essentially by bringing in a party commissar to now take over the company or at least be inside the company telling the executives and officer of the company what to do. It's something that, frankly, the CCP would do. Jason Calacanis (00:17:53): It does feel a little, like yeah. Stazzy like Didn't we have all of the companies on their own from Twitter to Google to Facebook release their own diversity stats? Years ago? David Sacks (00:18:08): I think this is about more than diversity. It's about equity. It's about equity. So So Jason Calacanis (00:18:12): let's explain the difference in what that means. This is somehow, how the companies run? Like, the day to day life of the employees there, not just the composure and the breakdown of the employees? David Sacks (00:18:21): Look. Equity equity means anything that progresses, say, it We've seen on this program before how equity has dumped the shark. There's now there's a provision in the infrastructure bill for tree equity. So I mean, really, any disparity that occurs that progresses don't like can now be called a violation of equity, and this gives them the authorization to come in there and start giving orders. Jason Calacanis (00:18:43): It's very weird that it I I don't understand how the product then review gets stopped. Is that meant to throttle you from a leasing product as a punitive? David Sacks (00:18:51): Let me give you an example. So -- Nice. -- recently, you know, I wrote a a piece called the the no buy list where I basically, you had companies like PayPal and so these other financial firms were starting to deny service to customers to users based on their political affiliations. And not just, like, people who are in, you know, well known hate groups that, like, everybody sort of, you know, issues to stay away from. But these are people with relatively down the middle conservative, you know, conservative groups. And they were being denied service by, you know, Fintech Firms. So now I'm not saying that this is what this means, but if this equity auditors tells you, well, look. I don't think it's equitable to allow these conservative groups to, you know, be a user of your product. Well, what's the company gonna do? They're gonna have to listen to that. And and that that is a plausible scenario given that it's already occurred. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:19:42): We fall we've we said this so many times on the pod, but I just wanna say it again for because I guess a lot folks are new and listening. Whenever you hear equity used by a politician, it usually means there's a power grab involved. Yeah. Because if you really want things to be fair, you want things to be equal. Retocracy. You want equality. But whenever you start throwing over the word equity around and say we want racial equity. It's a bunch of, you know, a small number of people. who, you know, basically have and live by what I you know, what's often called luxury beliefs, who wanna judge other people, who wanna be morally absolutist, and then who wanna basically like, you know, exercise a power grab. And we have to push back on that stuff because it is just a slippery slippery slope. Jason Calacanis (00:20:27): But this also seems like overbearing red tape for companies. I mean, if the company has no problems, no complaints against it, you know, releases their diversity numbers. Like, what is the point of going into their auditing them? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:20:40): Let's use let's use an example that builds on what David said. Let's take Square. Okay? One of the one of the most incredible things that Square did was in a hackathon essentially, build a Cash App. Yeah. And one of the most incredible things that happened in app was that it really started to blow up in urban communities. Okay? And it starts to normalize banking opening up bank accounts, having more savings, understanding, you know, an on ramp into crypto. You know, Cash App has probably done more to get black and brown people into crypto and to save money and to understand their cash than almost anybody else as as like a Speaker 1 (00:21:14): 100% Chamath Palihapitiya (00:21:14): almost the explicit strategy. And so is somebody supposed to go in there and just arbitrarily judge whether there's too many white people that work at Square or not enough black people? And so x yz thing has to change or such and such a feature doesn't actually speak to folks so you can't do it. It's insanity. It's like Jason Calacanis (00:21:32): Well, also, it should To your point, Saks, is what what do the what what do these people know? Like, what is their qualification? And what where what's the goal? David Sacks (00:21:40): Right. And and to build on Shamas Point, if these senators so I think Cory Booker was the one who proposed this. If these senators want those specific policies implemented, in the Fortune 500, let them pass a bill to do it and let all of our elected representatives vote on that bill. Mhmm. And then we can see if it'll really if it's popular enough to pass, and whether it passes constitutional muster. They won't do that because these bills, if they were directly corporatized for -- They Chamath Palihapitiya (00:22:07): don't have likes. Speaker 1 (00:22:07): -- David Sacks (00:22:07): would be very unpopular So instead what they do is tell you, well, we're not gonna do this directly. We're gonna put pressure on these big companies to hire one of our political friends. Again, this like commissar like person, and empower them to tell these companies what to do. So it's it's really kind of insidious what they're doing, and they're kinda covering it all up with these nice sounding names. I mean, who could be against a racial equity audit. Right? Because yes. If you're if you're against it, you must Jason Calacanis (00:22:34): be a David Sacks (00:22:35): racist, and you must not believe in auditing companies. Right. Right. So there's just word game. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:22:39): You have to you just it's a word game. It's it's using words that are really loaded and mean a lot to a lot of us. Right? If I hear racism and race, my ears perk up. Yeah. It's not triggering, but my ears perk up. And I have I have a lot of inbuilt opinions on it that had been governed by 45 years as living as a as a brown man. And so, okay, it stands to reason that I'm gonna pay attention But on the surface, if you say racial equity audit, it also doesn't seem actually all that bad. It seems like reasonably benign, and that seems like an okay thing to do. It's just that most of us then stop at that point and move on. Right. But if you actually look at the rules, again, I would just say whenever political frameworks use the word, we need to create more equity, the outcomes are horrible. For example, look in healthcare. You know, if we have used this idea of healthcare equity, health equity and we've misused it to such a degree. And all we see is that now the system is so perverted. It also doesn't work for the majority of people that have actually had the care system work for it. Right? Like at the top of the pecking order has always been white men, have always gotten the best care and we've always measured our health care progress in America based on the longevity of men, white men, you know, seventy eight, seventy nine, eighty years old, and then it started to degrade. And people are curious what was happening. And underneath it all was just a bunch of power grabs. Under the realm of equity, we passed all these crazy laws. We basically didn't do anything to really create more accountability and a cost based system. And here we are. So at some point, when the citizen re hears that word, You're gonna have to put your thinking cap on and actually take the opposite view which is hold on, this is a really nice sounding word. It may not be what I think it is, and I gotta pay attention because more than if I didn't hear the word at all. Jason Calacanis (00:24:26): Anything you have on race, Friedberg, representing South Africans. David Sacks (00:24:33): Fundamentally, I I don't think this is about race, Jay Collin. I think this is about power. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:24:36): Power. It's about power. Jason Calacanis (00:24:37): It feels like Grip. Also, it feels like a little it feels like a little bit of a grift. I know I had heard on the back channel that a lot of the people who are criticizing some big tech companies who were getting you know, I'm not gonna say who or under what monoclonal? -- sweater Karen. Is it sweater Karen? But there was a group of people who are, like, attacking Big slut Chamath Palihapitiya (00:24:56): of Karen. If she has an opinion on sweaters, she must have an opinion on racial equity. Come on. Jason Calacanis (00:25:00): Okay. Enough. Big spread of Karen Adams. The issue is they would complain and create these, you know, basically, you know, Twitter mobs. And then they'd say, oh, yeah. And hire us for $20,000 will come in and fix the problem for you. So they were creating the Twitter mob to then come in and solve the problem. That's so bizarre. -- like, oh, wow. That is That's Chamath Palihapitiya (00:25:20): so brutal. That's so dirty. David Sacks (00:25:22): No. I mean, these HR consultants who've written these books, like, on the was it a Dangel or whatever on white fragility and, you know, how to be an anti racist. I mean, they're all making a fortune in corporate fees, you know, charging Speaker 1 (00:25:35): 20, $30,000 David Sacks (00:25:36): per per gig. I mean, it is absolutely a racket. David Friedberg (00:25:39): I'm not a fan of equality of outcome. I'm more a fan of a quality of opportunity, and I think Cancel. Many many of these sorts of folks, I try and identify methods to drive a quality of outcome. and it inhibits the competitive forces that cause the best person, the best idea, the best business, the best market model to win. And, you know, I think it it's easy to conflate the 2 when you don't really think through it, but it is certainly appropriate and reasonable to make sure that folks aren't discriminated against when they apply for a job. I don't think it's appropriate to then apply considerations of race and other factors when people are equally in the same job on who gets to have the chance at the bonus, it is the best performer that should have the chance at the bonus. And the same should be true in marketplaces and the same should be true at business. And I think that what we're really seeing is this fundamental effort to try and generate equality and outcomes in lots of different manifestations, and we're seeing it more frequently and and more severely and we've seen it historically. But it's not I don't think it's the right model, and it's only gonna lead to to demise of marketplace dynamics and the things that cause forces for success and progress at to win. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:26:56): You know, we we mentioned this a couple of times. I'll just say it again, but we are about to have probably the most significant movement and questioning of equity versus equality because I think in the next month, maybe in the next 2 months, we're going to sort of see a pretty strict opinion on affirmative action. And if you talk to legal scholars, the overwhelming consensus this is gone. And we're gonna have to figure out how to rebuild what was a really important system that tried to give folks at least you know, getting to the starting line in the same way. But it's not gonna it's not really gonna exist in this in the same way, shape, or form. Jason Calacanis (00:27:37): Speaking of Karen's, Elizabeth Warren was bashing Elon over Jackson. David Friedberg (00:27:42): I'm so sorry. Jason Calacanis (00:27:44): And Elon has a Twitter handle. with some followers, and he responded. Elizabeth Warren says, let's change the rigged tax code to the person of the year. We'll pay taxes and stop free loading off everyone else. Unfortunately, for Elizabeth Warren, Elon Musk is pretty good at Twitter. He replied, and if you opened your eyes for 2 seconds, you would realize I pay more taxes than any American in history this year. he paid which is, like, I guess, true. He paid more in taxes now than any American in history. As a side note, Elizabeth Warren has a Speaker 1 (00:28:17): $12,000,000 Jason Calacanis (00:28:18): net worth, and I saw But she paid no taxes on her equity holdings because she didn't sell anything, which is how the tax code works. And Elon then responded. Don't spend it all at once. Oh, wait. You already did. And then you know, after the warm up replies, Elon really, you know, got in the zone and like Steph Curry, just started draining half court shots. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:28:45): He reissued her every single shot. Speaker 1 (00:28:46): -- Jason Calacanis (00:28:46): her with 50,000 replies. Yeah. You remind me of when I was a kid and my friends, angry mom would just randomly yell at everyone for no reason. Please don't call the manager on me Senator Karen. Elon also responded to Bernie Sanders' tweet today about climate change. Bernie Sanders said, When future generations ask us, what do we do to stop the climate crisis? How will the answer? And Elon said, And so great tweets. But to the bigger picture, did these people even know what's going on in the world? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:20): No. They woke up they woke up on the wrong side of the tilt bed. Yeah. Because in in, like, a 24 hour period, he was the time person of the year the Feet person of the year, and they just went into super mega tilt mode. Jason Calacanis (00:29:36): And the build back better act got shelved Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:39): And he -- And then then builds on 20,000,000,000 cells. Well, I mean, you know, I think we we talked about this last week, but that bill is dead now. I mean, they pushed it to March to basically avoid a downvote. Nothing's gonna happen. David, you're right. What was that? Jason Calacanis (00:29:53): We said last week, wouldn't it be hilarious if Elon said kill it? and then it got killed? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:58): Well, I don't I don't think that that's why the bill is dying. I think the real reason is that we now see a Fed posture, which is actually pretty reasonable which actually says, oh, wait. There's way too much money in the system as it is. Yeah. You know, the Fed 2 days ago basically said, we're gonna see up to 3 rate hikes next year, probably 50 basis points each. So you know, it's basically acknowledging that these last several years, we have printed way too much money and they're trying to fix the problem that they created. So that's I think the real reason. And then the CBO comes out and basically says the congressional budget office and says, This thing is a white Albatross that's gonna cost way more than you guys think it will. And so it puts Biden in this very awkward situation, which is On the one hand, he supports Powell and he supports institutions or has historically like the CBO But he effectively then has to push back on both of them all in one fall soup to try to ram this build down people's throats, and the support is, I think, it's crumbling. And so, you know, to save face, they basically said, well, we'll put a pin on this and we'll revisit it in March. But you guys know what's gonna happen. In the next three months, there's gonna be some other crisis Most folks will forget and it may just allow them to move on without having to actually deal with the potential of this thing getting defeated which would just be I think, cataclysmically bad for Speaker 1 (00:31:19): -- Jason Calacanis (00:31:19): Sacks. Speaker 1 (00:31:19): -- Jason Calacanis (00:31:19): for Democrats. You were on CNBC today. I thought you said something really important where you said listen. Maybe if we just calm things down for a year, we can, you know, get through. I'm not sure what the exact quote was, but maybe you could unpack sentiment you had on CNBC today because I thought that was pretty important. David Sacks (00:31:38): Yeah. Well, I mean, I agree with what Jamal said. This I mean, this this BBB bill was particularly anachronistic once the Speaker 1 (00:31:47): 6.8%, David Sacks (00:31:48): you know, inflation print came out. In other words, we're in a hyper inflationary environment, and here comes the spill. that the CBO says if, you know, over 10 years would cost Speaker 1 (00:31:58): $5,000,000,000,000, David Sacks (00:31:59): that's the last thing we need is more money printing when, you know, we've got the inflationary fire out of control. So I think that is why the the bill is being shelved, probably not to return. I think the the larger problem that we have in the market is that this there's a tremendous amount of uncertainty being created right now by Washington. We've had tremendous uncertainty overspending. over taxes, over interest rates, and the conversations that I'm having with friends who are investors in, really, every asset class, real estate, VC, crypto. The conversations are all the same. What's interest rate it's gonna do? What's the macro picture gonna be? I've never seen investors who should be focused on, hey. Do I mess with this company or buy this building, whatever? Those are one of the conversations. It's all everyone's a macro economist now. And so we're also distracted by this. And so now the Fed a couple of days ago finally gave us clarity. I mean, what they basically said is they're gonna accelerate the taper. They'll they'll end quantitative easing at the end of q Speaker 1 (00:32:57): 1. David Sacks (00:32:57): And then we're basically gonna get Speaker 1 (00:32:59): -- Jason Calacanis (00:32:59): Explain what that means to people who don't know what they've been purchasing and why. David Sacks (00:33:03): Yeah. I mean, quantitative easing is kind of a weird term. What it means is that the Fed has been going into the bond market and buying bonds. I think, basically, mortgage backed securities and treasuries. And they've been buying, I think, about Speaker 1 (00:33:16): 90,000,000,000 David Sacks (00:33:17): a month. They're gonna cut that back to 60,000,000,000 a month. and that'll continue. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:33:22): Just to explain it a little bit more. When you do that, what you're doing is you're giving somebody that owns those bonds money. Okay. So the Fed David Sacks (00:33:31): prints money. -- basically. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:33:32): Yeah. Government prints a $100, takes that $100 steps into the market, and takes something from you, in this case, it's a bond and gives you that freshly printed $100. What are you going to do? Well, you're probably going to go and spend you're gonna buy other things. And that's the cycle of inflation that quantitative easing basically creates. And so when you call when you talk about tapering what that means is slowing down the money printing machine and slowing down you stepping in the market and buying assets with money that you've created out of thin air. Jason Calacanis (00:34:05): And it's up to other people to buy those assets. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:07): If other people see value in them -- You you then it can then force to find the real market clearing price. David Sacks (00:34:12): Yeah. Those those bonds are now on the Fed's balance sheet. And so there's a very interesting chart Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:15): showing assets that David Sacks (00:34:16): are owned by the Fed. And it went up by something like 3,000,000,000,000 during COVID. So that is the sort of monetary stimulus that's been pumped into the market over the last couple of years. Separately, we've had something like 6 or 7,000,000,000,000 of just spending by the government. So you know, tremendous amount of Speaker 1 (00:34:35): -- Jason Calacanis (00:34:35): That $3,000,000,000,000 is not thrown away. So we're clear -- Right. Speaker 1 (00:34:38): -- Jason Calacanis (00:34:38): we're gonna get interest on that, and people some number will default. Some of them will get paid back. It's a way of stimulating the economy, but we now know after the stimuli checks and all the stimulus we did during the pandemic, we don't need to put more fire or oxygen or kerosene on what we got going in this economy. Correct, David? David Sacks (00:34:56): Yeah. I mean, we we should show that chart about how much the the Fed's balance sheet has grown over the last couple of years. But, you know, the the argument, I think, would be the reason why they do they buy these assets is if they're buying bonds, it basically means that it keeps the yield down. Right? Because if they weren't the ones buying them, someone else would have to buy these bonds to keep the government funded. and they might demand a higher interest rate, a higher yield on the bonds. So this by having the Fed come in and increase the demand for the government's debt, it means that the government can sell its debt more cheaply. Jason Calacanis (00:35:31): Mhmm. David Sacks (00:35:32): So when they stop doing that, I think you can expect that you know, interest rates are gonna need to rise in order to make our debt attractive to, you know, to bond buyers. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:35:43): The other thing the other thing, by the way, that the Fed did when they did that was it wasn't just government bonds that they were buying. They decided completely arbitrarily at one point to start buying certain corporate debt. So they own, like, 4 debt, GM debt -- Commercial. Jason Calacanis (00:36:01): They own, like -- -- that's called. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:02): No. No. No. That well, not mean, commercial paper is sort of more very short term short term duration. But, like, how do you make a decision to start buying corporate bonds? It's like buying corporate equities. Do you buy Google versus book? Do you have a Speaker 1 (00:36:14): -- Jason Calacanis (00:36:14): Who's the capital allocator making that decision? David Friedberg (00:36:16): More importantly, who who's who's setting the price? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:18): Who's setting the price? So, you know, these guys had been off the reservation for a long time. I think it's fair to say that they were forced into action without a playbook in the middle of a once in a you know, lifetime once a century pandemic. Fair enough. And I think they actually did a pretty reasonable job, but we just kept the tap on for so long. Yeah. And now we're like dealing with this stuff trying to figure out how do we actually compensate. So the idea that we would add knowing all of this So It's one thing I think if Biden passed the bill 5 months ago, 6 months ago, because we didn't know any of this stuff. But to do it now knowing that I think that it's really hard and I bet you that it's not just mansion on the Democrats that are having a little bit of heartburn and second thoughts it's probably more because I suspect that they could have forced his hand really if it was just up to him. But I suspect there are other Democrats who are now teetering on the fence thinking I don't want my legacy to be tied to this when we're we're printing 6, 7, 8% inflation for me to basically keep the money printing machine on because it's it's insane. Jason Calacanis (00:37:23): This is, like, the Sopranos episode where he gave him, like, he fronted the guy, like, forty five boxes of Ziti. And, like, you wake up, and this guy can't pay the bill on the poker game. Like, where we even afford to pay this back at some point? Yeah. David Sacks (00:37:34): Look. I think when when March comes around and this bill supposedly gonna be brought back off the table, we're gonna be into the election season in 2022. And I don't know that democrats are gonna wanna defend this. Jason Calacanis (00:37:43): Mhmm. David Sacks (00:37:43): I think there is a view on the democratic side that if they deliver enough goodies to their base then that will help them win elections. But I think what helps you win elections more than delivering goodies to your special interests is for the economy to be healthy. Yeah. And if they are sort of pressurizing this inflation situation, that is, I think, ultimately, that could backfire. I think that's gonna be for the economy. Frankly, I think Manchester is doing Biden a favor because if the economy does grow by 4% next year as the Fed is approaching it is, And if inflation comes down because you stop printing money the way they're doing, then, you know, I think the Democrats will do better in the election if the economy is good. I mean, one of the reasons they did so poorly, you know, in the off year election a month ago is that there's tremendous economic anxiety out there. People are seeing the inflation at the gas tank when they go to buy food. And, you know, if that continues, I think they're gonna do very poorly next year. I wanted to like, bring up this chart from Fred on total assets on the Fed balance sheet. I think it is really interesting to look at this thing because the so the the Fed had about it 1,000,000,000,000 of assets until 2008. Okay. Then we had the financial crisis and they doubled it. That's when quantitative easing began. I went to 2,000,000,000,000. But then from roughly Speaker 1 (00:39:01): 2009 David Sacks (00:39:03): to about 2020 before COVID, Somehow the balance sheet grew from 2,000,000,000,000 to 4,000,000,000,000. So and it had gone to four and a half, and they were starting to shed assets. So they were starting to get off drugs. But it was still from 2 to 4,000,000,000,000 between this, like, 2009 and 2020 period when supposedly we weren't in a crisis. So You know, they've continued this quantitative easing, then COVID hits. And the amount grows from 4 to 7,000,000,000,000. Just in 2020, And since then, it's gone from 7 to a little under Speaker 1 (00:39:35): 9,000,000,000,000 David Sacks (00:39:37): just in the last, you know, Well, they they they Jason Calacanis (00:39:40): get 3,000,000,000,000 off our books ever. I mean, these are 20 year olds. Speaker 1 (00:39:43): -- David Sacks (00:39:43): gotta sell them. Well, either they're gonna have to sell the assets Speaker 1 (00:39:46): -- Jason Calacanis (00:39:46): Or they can do. David Sacks (00:39:48): Well, let's not like that. They they basically are the are the the Fed is the one who bought the government debt. Mhmm. So their buying is called a 10 year treasury. So, yeah, I guess they could just wait till the the bond gets paid off. But but I guess they could do that. But but now that Fed has an incentive not to let the assets get toxic. Right? So if, you know, the assets would get toxic, if, you know, if interest rates go up too high, that drives bond prices down. And now all the assets in their books are worth a lot less. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:18): Yeah. This is this is like the point where we have to just call it and say, okay. You know what? let's move on, meaning in the sense that, like, we have to go to these root causes because the money is more money is not gonna fix what we're dealing with. So I just put something in the group chat, and I just wanna get your guys' reaction to it. Because when I saw it, It blew my mind. There was a study, okay, that was just published a few days ago and it said the following thing. children born during the pandemic have experienced a catastrophic drop in cognitive development of 22 IQ points. Yep. 22. Yeah. And when you look at it, the people that were the most affected were male children, and children of lower socioeconomic families, but everybody was affected. Yet you see the amount of money that we're spending already So adding more money to something is not gonna make it better if what we're spending today is basically just getting flushed on the toilet. And these are the kinds of things that really matter. How do you allow an entire generation of kids to -- Breaking. to see to to suffer. By the way, what does that show? That means that teachers actually are unbelievably important. So number 1, they should get paid Okay. Let's just put it that. David Sacks (00:41:34): And there Jason Calacanis (00:41:34): should be more of them and smaller class sizes. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:41:36): Exactly. But if you if you have, you know, these completely screwed up incentives, between, you know, the organizations, the unions that represent these teachers and then the parents who have completely different incentives, and they base to never be in classroom and to not really teach, this is the measurable outcome. Yeah. The IQ of our children I mean, We have Jason Calacanis (00:41:56): virtual ability, their executive function, their scores are going down. How do they recover from that? me a lot of tutoring. So be a lot of summer school. Yeah. I mean, Zoom's not gonna do it. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:42:06): I don't think more Fortnite and Roblox fixes this problem. No. Definitely not. And and I feel terrible because, like, you know, as a parent, that's that was my solution. Right? I was struggling with the Zooms like every other parent. And then in the evenings, I was just so burnt and just feeling so beside myself in the middle of the pandemic. Whereas I had a no iPad rule for my kids, The I broke down. Jason Calacanis (00:42:28): Yeah. You know? Everybody did. I mean, it's like you're at your home with your kids all day long. It's not how it's supposed to work. And Chamath Palihapitiya (00:42:35): But so the point is, like, this is where the government should step in and actually say, okay. Here, let me take leadership on this topic. Right? And talk to the unions, fix whatever needs to be fixed, amp up the the money into charter schools. Do whatever you need to do, but please fix the problem. But randomly spending money to drive to buy votes. I think people see through that. It just doesn't work and related to that, Omnicron is spreading like crazy. New York City have a number. -- Bitcoin. Jason Calacanis (00:43:03): Omicron. Omicron. There is no n. Omicron. Omicron. Yes. I'll I'll learn how to pronounce it when it's gone. Omicron. on the cross? It's spreading like crazy in New York City and in the UK amongst other places. The NBA and the NFL are seeing surges. David Friedberg (00:43:21): had a ton of people I know test positive this week. Do you guys have that? Family friends? Crazy. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:43:27): No. It's David Friedberg (00:43:27): insane how many people are I know so many people that Speaker 1 (00:43:29): -- -- Jason Calacanis (00:43:30): city? He's David Friedberg (00:43:32): Related? Yeah. And a lot of people that don't have any symptoms. Jason Calacanis (00:43:35): So here's the chart of cases, cases spiking, but hospitalizations and deaths are flat or going down in places where these outbreaks are occurring. The UK charts are even starker. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence. Everybody on talk and Instagram and Twitter, young people in New York who went to SantaCon are saying they all got it. But if you What is SantaCon? SantaCon is the worst holiday of the year. It's a time when a bunch of young people dresses Santa Claus. and get drunk. And you have so I put, like, 10,000 people. It's a bark crawl, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:44:09): like, Semiconductor. Do you see this? David Friedberg (00:44:11): You see how you see how Monty's wearing his Santa Ana? Monty's boss. That's what goes on. Everyone wears their little Santa outfit and they go bar crawling. Speaker 1 (00:44:19): So it's not sexy Santa. Jason Calacanis (00:44:21): Well, actually, I have a story about that. I was The severance is going to Oh Chamath Palihapitiya (00:44:25): my gosh. I don't know. Jason Calacanis (00:44:26): You were sexy Santa? No. I literally took my daughters out for pizza, Tony's in North Beach. And, you know, I got my 3 daughters and there's all these people walking around, like, looked at it Santa Claus. Like, a lot of them. And so there's a 1000 Santa Claus descend on North Beach. and I turn around and I kid you not. There are 2 old guys. I'm talking seventy years old. And they're wearing a baseball a Santa Hat Santa boots, and nothing in between. Literally, buck naked. in on the straight side. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:05): Yeah. Bro, you're you're so you're so demented. Okay. You're like this, like, like, Anky Purve. Like, every time I get those text messages, I don't know what to think. Did you guys click on the Twitter link with Jason? I was like, guys, search for the Folsom Street Fair on Twitter? I can't I can't unsee what I saw. Jason Calacanis (00:45:22): I was like, why is falls up street trending? I was like, I thought there was a terrorist attack. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:27): Bro, that was so brutal. You you should you can't send that shit around. Like, it's so brutal to go. Jason Calacanis (00:45:32): Don't click on I was like, don't click on false. I was like, oh, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:34): this is a Twitter link. What is it about? Web 3 point out? Jason Calacanis (00:45:38): Not exactly. The Folsom Street fair, I'm gonna go ahead and say don't search for that. If you have kids around, it's a little bit intense. But, anyway, the SantaCom was on Saturday, December 11th. And so here we are 5 days late you know, 4 or 5 days later, and this stuff hitting. If that's true, it almost perfectly mirrors the original outbreak. And after St. Patty's Day in March Speaker 1 (00:45:58): 2020, Jason Calacanis (00:46:00): And if you look on social media, all the cityMD lines where people get tested are around the block and 30 NBA players have entered the COVID protocol in the last 2 weeks? About Speaker 1 (00:46:11): 7% Jason Calacanis (00:46:12): of the league. And we had a big question mark of would this be less more contagious, it obviously is. Jack, less deadly, it apparently is. David Friedberg (00:46:19): Some studies show as much as forty times more infectious than delta. highly contagious, extreme very much airborne. It's going everywhere. Like I said last time, if it does end up having low severity and low hospitalization rate and low death rate for vaccinated or vaccinated plus boosted populations, this could end up being a massive immunizing event, meaning, like, a lot of people will develop new antibodies and resistance. And, you know, that could be a net good thing. But it's certainly the case that this is not a one strain, one shot, and done pandemic. This is an endemic kind of circumstances we're gonna be in this for a while and, you know, the circumstances are one that may kind of require, you know, an adaptation in terms of how we live and operate. And especially as it relates to things that are so important like keeping businesses open at schools, you know, I think we're gonna use recent memory to guide future decision making or at least politicians and, you know, kind of lawmakers will, and they'll say, hey. This is what we did last time this happened, and we just saw this in California where they're like, last time, like, we told everyone going to lockdown or wear masks indoors again and we're seeing that behavior again. certainly it may have an impact in terms of the spread, but this is highly contagious and it's gonna spread everywhere. And I think there's just some adaptation that maybe it's gonna be needed here over the long run. There's no end there's no end inside. Jason Calacanis (00:47:45): There's no end in sight, but it is less deadly. And so it could be mass immunizing, and that has led people to think of this herd immunity. Potentially, if there's not another variant, Sachs, if the NBA and the NFL are learning to live with COVID and, obviously, when we were in Miami, there's no COVID. In Austin, there's no COVID. Yeah. Is everybody now just go because it seems like the politicians now whether it's in Europe, we're seeing the protests. And I I think we'll see them here in the United States if this keeps up. Australia, obviously, having protests as well. The public has decided I think we're willing to have a thousand people die a day or a certain number of people die today to get back to normal. So what what do you think the end game here is going into 2022? I'll David Sacks (00:48:26): make a prediction for 2022. Okay. I will predict that even the blue areas of the country are gonna kinda have fatigue with all these COVID restrictions. And so even the blue state governors who are addicted to their state of emergencies and their restrictions and lockdowns and closures and mass mandates, even they are gonna have to give them up in 2022 because the country is sick entire to this. Peter Pham had a really good tweet to see other day maybe you guys can dig it up where he had a friend visit him from Texas. And they've been living normally there since, like, July of 2020, roughly. Kids in school. Occasionally, someone gets sick, but They've been living normally. Okay? It's a manageable problem. And he couldn't believe. Peter's friend could not believe how they're living in LA. We're still everyone's living in fear They've we now have a new 1 month indoor mask mandate. Thanks to, you know, governor Newsom who still is ruling the state or state of emergency. What what good is that gonna do? So I think you know? But but but I think that some of these blue areas, people are so petrified still of the virus. And I think it's just because of they're the ones who have been ingesting all this fear porn coming from the media And but I but I think it's gonna break. I think the the finally, the hysteria and panic will break. It'll crest over the blue parts of the country. in 2022, they're already back to normal in the red parts. And especially Omicron, you can't stop this. Okay. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:49:56): I think that's the the the salient point here. Nothing works. You're all gonna get it. Look. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:50:01): The the David Sacks (00:50:01): the little the little stupid vaxx card that you have to show everywhere to get, like, backward at at a movie theater, like, you know, in services go. Doesn't do anything because vaccinated people can spread it too. So that doesn't do anything. And the mask mandate doesn't do anything. You know? And so none of the stuff does anything except getting a vaccine reduces the severity. of the illness -- And losing weight, Saks? Speaker 1 (00:50:23): -- David Sacks (00:50:23): and losing weight. Jason Calacanis (00:50:24): And we can't have that conversation. David Sacks (00:50:25): Those consequences are mainly on the person who decides to do it? Jason Calacanis (00:50:29): That's what we have to say. We just have to tell everybody, you know, listen. Lose weight, get in shape, eat healthy, get vaccinated, get back to life. That's it. That's the best you can do. I'm I believe everybody's gonna get it. David Sacks (00:50:40): We're we're starting to see like a real divergence in American life where And I think Omicron's if we have lockdowns under Omicron, and really the the big issue is school closures. If we go back to school closures in blue states and have more of the learning loss, that Chamath was talking about. And I bet we do. Whereas in red states, they're still out there learning normally and they're dealing with it just like they deal with the outbreak of a flu season. or cold season, but they you know, they're just managing it. We're gonna there's gonna be we're gonna be living in 2 different Americans. But I but I don't believe this is sustainable. I think eventually, These governors who are holding on to their power and their restrictions are gonna lose in Speaker 1 (00:51:19): 2022. David Sacks (00:51:20): The ones who haven't given it up are gonna are gonna basically fall to a red wave in November 22. I think Newsom might be the only one left standing. Speaker 1 (00:51:29): -- Jason Calacanis (00:51:29): schools closed. I see everybody's canceling their Christmas parties. JPMorgan canceled that We're close. David Sacks (00:51:35): We're close. Jason Calacanis (00:51:36): Every Christmas party's been getting canceled, and I wonder if schools. I mean, teachers' unions, they they gotta be having a meeting right now. David Sacks (00:51:44): They don't even the the teachers don't even acknowledge that learning loss exists. Jason Calacanis (00:51:48): I mean, this is a last point. I decided to homeschool for the year of the pandemic, and I kept my homeschool teacher for, you know, a couple of hours a day, and my kids have done wonderfully. And it's great to have the ability to afford to be able to do that, but not everybody can have an after school tutor. David Sacks (00:52:02): Let me uplevel this for a second. Okay. So maybe I'm spilling the beans on one of my predictions I'll make at the predictions episode we do. But First, we had COVID. Okay? Then we had the overreaction to COVID, both politically and economically. Economically, we pumped 10,000,000,000,000 plus of spending and monetary and QE and all this sort of stuff. Politically, we had these restrictions school closures, lockdowns, mandates. Okay? I think we're about to enter a new phase, which is the correction to the overreaction. And I think we're already in the correction. So the market's been correcting. Gross stocks have been correcting for the last 5 or 6 weeks. I now think that were there was a bit of a political correction with Youngkin Winning in Virginia. Remember that state swung 10 points relative to a year ago? And I think you'll see a further correction both political and economic in Speaker 1 (00:52:53): 2022. David Sacks (00:52:55): So we may not be completely past COVID, but I think we are gonna be passed this sort of overreaction to COVID. David Friedberg (00:53:02): What'd you guys think about succession? Oh, no. Jason Calacanis (00:53:04): I haven't seen it. Don't say anything. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:53:08): Jeremy Strong. Jeremy Strong. Let's talk about the Jeremy Strong. Jason Calacanis (00:53:11): Jeremy Strong. Okay. Jeremy Strong is a weirdo. according to a New Yorker profile, and there's been a huge response to it. This profile came Chamath Palihapitiya (00:53:20): out -- Kendall Kendallroy on success. Jason Calacanis (00:53:21): Kendall Roy, who is woke and dumb and ineffective as an executive. And, obviously, the show is modeled after Rupert Murdoch and Fox and the kids there who are not doobie, actually. In the article, it hinted that most of secession's coworkers dislike him due to his intensity and nothing acted and method acting rituals. He won't rehearse with anybody. He's in character all the time like Daniel Day Lewis. He won't get makeup whenever everybody else does because he doesn't wanna reduce the energy in the buildup. The article notes, there is a fine line that strong walks between being a legendary method actor and just a completely awesome networker. Wait. Can I tell you why Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:04): this story was interesting to me and why I sent this to you guys? Yeah. Okay. So here's a guy who in many ways is a virtuoso and the reason you mean, he's a he's a really good actor because I despise Kendall Loy on that show. And I was wondering, like, is this guy just a terrible actor, or is he such a good actor that I hate them? Yes. I hate him. And that's why I was attracted to this article and in it or after it, So, basically, what happens is he's a virtuoso. Just and I'll come back to him in a second. These people at the New Yorker who I guess are just jealous or wanna write clickbait try to destroy this guy, but what they didn't factor is that when they published this article, All these other actors would come to his defense and do it really publicly. Jason Calacanis (00:54:50): Yes. Anne Hathaway. Anne Hathaway. Jessica Chasson. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:54): Aaron Sorkin wrote a letter exactly that Jessica Chastain published to Twitter because Aaron Aaron Sorkin doesn't have access to social media by design. And in all of it, they said, this is the most incredible person. We've seen Aaron Sorkin says this guy is as good as Dustin Hoffman, Jason Calacanis (00:55:10): which is like, that's his Chamath Palihapitiya (00:55:11): As good as it gets. So why was it interesting to me? It's you have these people who are grinding and trying to perfect their craft be a virtue. So you talked about Steph Curry grinding. Try to perfect his craft. Just a little Steph Curry story as a tangent. He he brought in this team where they basically started to map out all of the circumferences of the ring of the of the net. and he practiced this summer literally trying to get it perfectly in to create this very specific kind of swish. And he just kept shooting and shooting and shooting and shooting not, you know, all the time, but every day for some number of shots trying to get the ball perfectly into the basket. That is a level of perfectionism and it that's being a virtue so that none of us can really appreciate. But you see the output and we all love it. He's already the goat, and he's trying to outdo himself. Here's a different guy in a completely different theater, in this case, acting. trying to also be really legendary and putting himself through all kinds of stuff and still not lose himself in it. Okay? so much so that all of these other people will really appreciate how amazing he is. And to me, what I don't like is that then these critics who don't do anything, who've never accomplished anything at all in their lives, feel so triggered that they have to judge them. It's one thing to not have that skill. I'll never be as good of an actor as Jeremy Strong. I'll never be as good of a basketball player as Steph. But I don't hate these people for that. I'm so happy that people like this exist, but there is a strain of people that exist. And then they also have Jason Calacanis (00:56:45): and then who also have a platform, Karen. David Friedberg (00:56:47): Yeah. I was about to connect the dots for you. It's like, look at, yeah, look at how the politicians feel the same way about private market development. Yeah. Speaker 1 (00:56:54): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:56:54): social side try to destroy people. Yeah. So instead what these people do is they take a shortcut. They're the critics. They're not in the arena. Okay? The folks in the arena are booking wins and losses constantly. You have this you have this strain of impotent critic that doesn't naturally know how to do for themselves, and they somehow have a platform. And then what they end up doing is cutting corners and then some subset of those start to cheat q, David. David Sacks (00:57:25): Well, yeah, it's a story that congress back in 2012 passed a bill called the stock act to prohibit members of Congress from trading on their insider knowledge based on, you know, based on legislative actions they're about to take And it's been widely flouted by dozens of, you know, representatives and senators. And the problem is there's no punishment. It's something like a $200 fine or something like that that gets waived in most of these cases. So it's completely hypocritical because these are the these politicians like Senator Karen. They're constantly demonizing and attacking other people to make themselves look better. And then here they are. They've got dirty hands. And they asked Pelosi. They said to Pelosi, well, don't you think that members of congress who prohibited from trading stop Right? Because their actions have such a huge consequence on them. And Pelosi said, no. It's a it's a free market. It's a free market which should be free to to do that. It's like, You know, I don't remember that being a defense every time you've wanted to regulate some, you know, industry that they they Jason Calacanis (00:58:29): even take -- Doesn't the president have to divest when they take the presidential office? Isn't that a thing? David Sacks (00:58:34): Divest or they put they put their assets through Jason Calacanis (00:58:36): blind trust. Yeah. So they're blind. So why why why would senator Congress Speaker 1 (00:58:40): -- David Sacks (00:58:41): Totally. Speaker 1 (00:58:41): -- Jason Calacanis (00:58:41): people be any different than the president? David Sacks (00:58:43): It's absurd that elected officials should be able to engage in insider trading and no sense. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:58:48): The Fed actually had this issue as well. 22 folks on the Federal Reserve board resigned, and then Powell issued a whole bunch of, I think, new laws or regulations inside the Fed to try to fix it. And the same issue occurs with federal judges. and there are federal judges that are consistently trading in the equities of the companies that are in front of them. And so how can you how can you adjudicate a case? There was one judge that had a 130 plus conflicts trading consults. a 130 plus and he is the one that's there where AT and T or Facebook or Google has an issue I mean, how can you actually assume that these folks are being impartial if that's the case? And there are no consequences for this. And yet, you know, if you're again going back to where we started, somebody in the arena trying to do something, you you just gotta think yourself like you have critics that are bashing you. You have folks that are basically flouting the law because they can, and then you put these two together, and it's like, this is so It's kinda depressing, to be honest with you. You you start to there's Jason Calacanis (00:59:53): a little bit of faith in the system. I mean, these these politicians are grifters. That's it. And full stop. I mean, they're just grifting And I mean, except for apparently, except for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, they should just buy the companies, say, hey. Why aren't they buying? Amazon and Tesla, they would be Total proponents of Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk if they did. David Sacks (01:00:12): Yeah. In fairness to Warren, I've seen her tweet that she supports the banning of the insider trading by congressional representatives, but I don't exactly see her fighting for it. you know, as hard as she's announcing people like Elon. So look. I mean, it's it's characteristic of of elected officials that they what is it? They see the the splinter, you know, in somebody, you know, in somebody else's eye but not the the log in their own or something like that. Isn't that the expression? But, you know, who's taking advantage of this issue is Blake Masters, who's running for the Senate in Arizona, just tweeted about that this would be the first thing he would fix if he gets elected, which is to ban insider trading by elected officials. And I I think it's remarkable that you know, politicians as shrewd as Nancy Pelosi are just seeding this issue to Republicans. I mean, I don't know why Republicans wouldn't make this a major plank of their platform for Speaker 1 (01:01:03): 2022. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:01:04): Nancy Pelosi is, I think, the 3rd or 4th richest person in congress. Her husband is a very sophisticated private equity investor. There are these meme stocks that follow Nancy Pelosi's stock trading account or pretend to that were, you know, recently by the way banned by Twitter. Right? Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:01:22): Okay. Potentially weird. Yeah. David Sacks (01:01:24): Protecting her. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:01:24): Protecting her effectively. So, you know, she has an incentive to not. Her seat of power is not necessarily the salary that she earns by being house leader but it's by translating that in a bunch of different ways and one way apparently it turns out is being an active equity investor in the market. David Sacks (01:01:41): It's unbelievable. That's allowed. I don't know how this isn't just, like, an a plus fantastic issue for Republicans. They should make it an absolute plank of their platform. Jason Calacanis (01:01:50): Here we go. Florida Republican Brian Mast was late in disclosure disclosing purchase of up to a 100,000 in stock at an aerospace company, which had just testified before our committee, he sits. Kentucky Republican Brand Paul was 16 months late disclosing that he bought his wife bought stock in a pharma company that manufactures an antiviral COVID 19 treatment. Right. Nevada Democrat Susie Lee failed to probably disclose more than 200 trades Speaker 1 (01:02:15): -- David Sacks (01:02:16): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:02:16): Just to be clear. -- 3,000,000. I mean, this is voluntary. Speaker 1 (01:02:19): -- David Sacks (01:02:19): clear, the violations have been on both sides of the aisle. I'm not at all trying to say that Republicans are better on this than Democrats Chamath Palihapitiya (01:02:26): and not whatever. This is good this is good bipartisan cooperation. David Sacks (01:02:29): Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, it's ridiculous. This is the a local class in Washington -- How public is your behavior? But but but the difference is this, which is that Pelosi the only leader of a party I've heard defend this as Pelosi. And I think this is a fantastic issue for outsider candidates, really, on both sides, to run on. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:02:47): Well, this is this is also something that Biden can take because Biden has never tried to do this stuff. David Sacks (01:02:52): You know? Oh my god. Biden's got so many shady dealings and Jason Calacanis (01:02:55): How are you talking about his kid? No. Selling paintings to China? There's a lot David Sacks (01:02:58): of rich Biden's out there. Apparently, he's got a rich brother. He's got a, you know, Honors who paid a lot of money. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:03:03): No. No. Maybe maybe Hunter is just But Joe Biden has been really down the middle. Come on. Beep Jason Calacanis (01:03:08): beep. Hunter is brilliant. I mean, he's selling paintings? David Sacks (01:03:10): Yeah. But why are they buying Hunter Biden paintings for up Speaker 1 (01:03:12): $500,000? Jason Calacanis (01:03:14): Well, I mean, he's a great artist. I mean, why do people buy? I don't know if you saw Melania coming out with NFTs today. So she's Speaker 1 (01:03:22): -- Jason Calacanis (01:03:22): Okay. Speaker 1 (01:03:22): -- Jason Calacanis (01:03:22): a lot Speaker 1 (01:03:23): -- David Sacks (01:03:23): I said so. Speaker 1 (01:03:23): -- Jason Calacanis (01:03:23): secure everybody's securing the bag now. I mean, if and by the way, the presidential gift is always the best. Just as a case in point, Trump's stock is worth over 2,000,000,000 and Buzzfeed, which makes 360,000,000 a year, and I think has a 100, 200,000,000 cash as David Sacks (01:03:39): well as 600 He's not in office. David Friedberg (01:03:41): That's misstated, Jason. Trump's spat, his shares that he's gonna be receiving are worth close to Speaker 1 (01:03:46): 20,000,000,000. David Sacks (01:03:48): What? 20,000,000,000? But he's not in office anymore, so I'm not sure. David Friedberg (01:03:51): The shares that he's gonna receive -- Oh, the buckets? Yeah. The the the what you're counting is the market cap of the cash and trust the value of the shares that are already public against that. Right. The the Trump the value of the Trump entity is gonna be closer to Speaker 1 (01:04:04): 20,000,000,000. Jason Calacanis (01:04:05): Oh, is that right? Wow. That's even crazier with no revenue. These poor media people -- Well, David Friedberg (01:04:09): the SEC, apparently, the DOJ sent a bunch of inquiries on this asking for background on the transaction. because there's no business. There's no contracts. There's no employees. It's just the whole Speaker 1 (01:04:20): -- Jason Calacanis (01:04:20): But by the way -- -- ideas. just to make sure that everybody understands, this isn't this is a bipartisan thing as well. The the ultimate bag secures, the Obama's got, I think, Speaker 1 (01:04:32): 50,000,000 Jason Calacanis (01:04:33): plus each for their book deals. And they got supposedly high eight figures like 50, 60, 70, 80,000,000 next week. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:04:39): Hold on a second. Hold on a second. When you said when you call them bag secures, I was really triggered there for a second. So am I supposed to take that offensively that you're saying Michelle Obama and Barack Obama secured the bag? Secure the bag is a term for getting the money. The the Obamas are doing it. Okay. So Clinton did it and -- What? It's the same. Speaker 1 (01:04:56): -- Jason Calacanis (01:04:56): the thing. It's the thing. It's the thing. Secure the bag. David Sacks (01:04:58): Okay. Jason, we're we're not against everybody not be able to make money. The issue is trading on your office in a way that where you are trading on your insider information that your office has given -- Sure. Jason Calacanis (01:05:12): But, I mean, here -- Or David Sacks (01:05:13): if you're selling influence, If you sell a book hold on a second. If you sell a book when you're out of office, is that really a problem? Is that Jason Calacanis (01:05:20): a embarrassing thing? I wanted to point out the Netflix 1. What was Netflix' existential crisis for the 8 years of them was in office. And if you remember, nobody remembers, net neutral cares. could they get would they have to pay Verizon? What was the Obama's position on net neutrality? They were for net neutrality. Netflix stock went up 40, 50 x under Obama. It could all be a coincidence. I'm just saying. What the fuck? David Sacks (01:05:46): So you're saying it's like you're saying it's that this guy's lobbying payment to Obama. Jason Calacanis (01:05:50): I think it's like -- Are you serious? I think it's like -- You are out of your mind. I mean, listen. The Clintons were doing speaking gigs for Goldman and half a $1,000,000. This David Friedberg (01:05:59): is kinda my cute. I'd go to dinner now. Jason Calacanis (01:06:01): Okay. Here's the MRA. And then Speaker 1 (01:06:03): -- David Sacks (01:06:03): You know, the main way that Winston Churchill supported himself was writing books, I think it's okay for politicians to write books. And if because ultimately, the public buys them, and that's how they make money. Jason Calacanis (01:06:12): What about when the book is 50,000,000 and the normal price would be 10? That's the problem. David Sacks (01:06:16): Well, I mean, if I I I guess you might have a point. If the advance was so in excess of the expected sales that it raises a question of what the remote of this -- That's what I'm talking about. Speaker 1 (01:06:25): -- David Sacks (01:06:25): payment. But I don't but is that is that what happened? Is Jason Calacanis (01:06:27): that true? Speaker 1 (01:06:27): -- Jason Calacanis (01:06:27): gets paid at $50,000,000 events. Nobody gets an a figure deal. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:30): It was never Jason Calacanis (01:06:30): made a documentary before. Nope. I mean, if this book sold 5,000,000 copies, it still wouldn't be worth it. Let's move on to mRNA so we keep our free Friedberg factor. Hi. David Friedberg (01:06:41): I'm, like, so I'm so ready to go to dinner. Rick Thompson gave me a wonderful bottle of wine, by the way. I'm gonna go drink it tonight. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:47): I'm so super tilted that you're you you Jason Calacanis (01:06:49): you you yeah. It's like I mean -- Why? -- exercise the Obamas? Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:53): I can't do it. You can't be so salty now. Jason Calacanis (01:06:55): No fly zone for you? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:56): super tilted. I mean, this is worse than sweater care. Jason Calacanis (01:06:59): What what about Clinton's? Can I can I go after their 500 days speaking games from Goldman Sachs? Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. Okay. Fine. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:08): Just don't dress the Obama's. David Sacks (01:07:09): But, I mean, Jason, are you are you doing exactly what senator Karen did to Elon, which is by virtue of the fact that they're making money that you are now imputing evil votes to No. Jason Calacanis (01:07:20): It's just a disproportionate to what they should get back. David Friedberg (01:07:23): By your assessment, their assessment's the same about Elon. Speaker 1 (01:07:25): I pay a lot of Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:26): money for Michelle Obama to do much of any. I think she's just Speaker 1 (01:07:28): -- -- Jason Calacanis (01:07:29): figure deal somebody who's never made a film for Netflix. You you you David Friedberg (01:07:33): said the same thing about Rivian. I don't know, man. You're projecting a little bit. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:36): I I totally agree. Here we go. This is on the 2nd floor. I jumped out the window right now. Yeah. You are at the David Friedberg (01:07:42): let winners be winners David Sacks (01:07:43): take out. I think we should differentiate between insider trading Jason Calacanis (01:07:47): Sure. David Sacks (01:07:47): Bad and should not be allowed. Influence peddling. Bad should not be allowed. And somebody out of office making money their influence? Yeah. Cool. Cool. No. No. No. Not advertising their influence. And if they did that, that's the problem. Jason Calacanis (01:07:58): Getting paid for services is fine. Getting paid David Sacks (01:08:00): to sell tickets or books. That's if that's what it is, that's fine. Jason Calacanis (01:08:03): it's disproportionate to the reality. Let's put a -- Okay. Fine. David Sacks (01:08:06): I I hear you, Zach. I agree with that. I agree Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:08): with that. Speaker 1 (01:08:08): -- Jason Calacanis (01:08:08): mRNA. No. No. No. No. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:10): Jason, say you like the Obama's or -- No. Jason Calacanis (01:08:12): I belong Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:12): to the Obama's. Jason Calacanis (01:08:13): I would vote Obama for a third term. Okay. David Friedberg (01:08:16): Didn't you get paid a $50,000 speaking fee recently to speak at a court? He did. Jason Calacanis (01:08:20): Like a David Friedberg (01:08:20): pit overpaid. Speaker 1 (01:08:21): -- David Friedberg (01:08:22): overpaid. Overpaid. Overpaid. You're worth Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:24): you're worth $8.8 in a fucking subway sandwich. David Friedberg (01:08:28): You're worth, like, 20 $500. I Jason Calacanis (01:08:29): just got home of 18 grand to do him. Yeah. Who are you David Sacks (01:08:32): trying to influence? Who are they paying you to influence, Jake? How? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:34): I mean, honestly, Jake. I have no influence. Jason, Jason, you're more of, like, Like, 30% less than a high end escort. Okay. No offense. Jason Calacanis (01:08:43): Oh, man. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:43): That's 600 bucks. I Jason Calacanis (01:08:44): don't know. It's really their best. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:46): There's a Speaker 1 (01:08:47): -- Jason Calacanis (01:08:47): It's not an impetus. -- saying what's 30% more than 50? You're saying it's, like, 80 grand. And that's I don't know. Speaker 1 (01:08:54): 60, $70, Jason Calacanis (01:08:54): I didn't realize that. Alright. Talk to us about the mRNA news for cancer free brew that came out this past week. David Friedberg (01:09:02): So I think the article that you guys sent around was one related to an oncology treatment that uses mRNA Tech. But I I think it's what what I wanted to kinda what I thought the interesting to talk about for a second is just zooming out on mRNA technology as a whole, which, you know, has been theorized for you know, the the bet the the potential of it's been talked about for 50 years. If we talk about real quick what what RNA is Remember, your DNA, your genetic code, you know, defines the the printing of proteins in your cells. And so every 3 letters of DNA is an amino acid, a bunch of amino acids in a in a row, form a protein, and that protein has some function in your body. the way that the DNA gets translated into protein is through these mRNA snippets. So a little snippet of RNA is a copy of DNA which floats over from the DNA strand, and it floats into what's called the ribosome, and the ribosomes, the protein printer in the cell. And there's lots of ribosomes, and there's lots of RNA floating all the time and it's being copied over. So some chemical triggers the expression of that gene, of that sequence of DNA into RNA, that then turns into protein. And so chemical induces the protein. Then the protein does something interesting. And the protein has a function in your body. And some of those proteins in human body can, you know, do bad things, and some of them can do good things. And so the idea has always been that we can actually use proteins as a way to modulate our health and modulate disease. For example, creating a protein that can attach to cancer cells and signal immune cells to come and kill those cancer cells as an example. And some people have genetic problems where their DNA prints the wrong protein. and then that protein is malformed or causes some harm to your health. And so the idea for RNA technology has always been that instead of having DNA be the source of truth for the proteins that get expressed in your body, can we stick RNA directly into cells and use that RNA to trigger the production of proteins that can do specific things in your body. And remember, the biggest segment of the farmer market or a huge segment of the farmer is what's called biologic drugs, which are largely antibodies, which are a type of protein that have some specific function. But very many of these proteins are hard to get into the body and get to the right place and get them to do the things we want them to do. So it'd be a lot easier if we could get RNA into the right cells to get those cells to make the right protein to do that thing that we want them to do. David Friedberg (01:11:30): So everything from cancer treatment to genetic diseases, and there's RNA interference, and there's RNA or what are called oligonucleotides that can be used to block specific bad proteins from being produced in your cells or it's kind of another kind of course of treatment. So making proteins that we think are therapeutic and blocking the production of bad proteins are kind of the the mainstay of this idea behind RNA technology. And Moderna was started to pursue this effort at a flagship pioneering, which is an incubation shop in in in Boston. And they really kind of struggled for years to find the right footing of what's the right business model and the right product, and the and the FDA kind of struggled with approving this stuff, and then boom, COVID hit. And when COVID hit, it was like, holy crap. Let's accelerate this RNA technology. Use it for vaccines, which have been in development for years. And the protein that's being produced is the same protein you find on the the SARS CoV 2 virus, which triggers an immune response and builds up your immunity to that virus. And now the floodgates are open. this is incredible because the frontier is in RNA over the next decade, could change the course of how we treat disease and change the course of of outcomes for many diseases from genetic diseases all the way through to cancers. And so we're starting to see those flood gates open. I think there's now a few a handful of these, you know, RNA interference products that have been approved by the FDA, and we're now starting to see many more of these cancer and immunotherapy drugs start to get approved as RNA therapies. But it really I think what's lit by by the breakthrough with COVID and everyone kinda seeing the benefit of this and the lack of side effects, and we've now got, I think, a validation in the market and acceptance for consumers of this technology could transform the industry in the same way that Genentech transform the pharma industry with biologic drugs in the eighties nineties. So it's super exciting. And, you know, we we can do updates regularly on our if you guys wanna talk about more of the cool stuff that's coming out. David Friedberg (01:13:28): But, man, this is gonna transform how medicine is delivered and and the potential of things that we can kinda train. Jason Calacanis (01:13:34): Let me ask you a question. Would the if we looked at the total number of deaths from COVID and then the potential death, you know, deaths avoided or early deaths or more life days added, however you wanna do it, from mRNA and the impact on cancer over the next, say, 30, 40 years. In other words, the impact it would have on the people living today who live through COVID Do you think net net, we'll see that the prevention of cancers through this new technology, it actually make you know, basically, the silver lining to what happened during COVID. David Friedberg (01:14:07): It's a good question. let me give you the counterpoint. In the late nineties, there was a a gene editing clinical trial that took place. and they tried to and and a patient, and they and they delivered the gene editing technology via virus. And so the virus goes in. It spreads around, and it and it has their this this molecule that would edit the gene, and and and it was for genetic disease. And a patient that they gave it to a young guy got this this virus and he actually died from and they shut down all clinical trials for years. And it was like, boom. That's the end. So there there are a lot of scientists, a lot of doctors have argued for yours that that particular case caused so many lives to be lost because we lost years of progress in being able to run clinical trials during that time and get drugs to market that could treat people. And you're right. Maybe the opposite has happened here that while these clinical trials may have taken years years years years to get through in a normal setting. Perhaps the pandemic was the accelerant we needed to get more of these to market faster and millions of people whose lives would have been lost or would be lost otherwise to cancer and other genetic diseases and so on over the years to come. will be saved because these therapies will get to market faster. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's a it's a it's a great point. And and maybe I don't know what the calculus is between the lives lost and the pandemic as the lives gained via these treatments coming to market faster, but it's it's certainly a good way to think Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:29): about it. Jason Calacanis (01:15:29): The the the way to look at it, we can look at the days of life lost. Right? And if we actually could actually predict how long somebody's gonna live. And that, you know, extension of life, I I think we can come out of this ahead. Finally, on our docket, Lyndon Brie calls for better policing in San Francisco after this insane surge in crime. Here's the video. Speaker 6 (01:15:47): And it's time that the reign of criminals who are destroying our city, it is time for it to come to an end. And it comes to an end when we take the steps to be more aggressive with law enforcement, more aggressive with the changes in our policies. and less tolerant of all the bullshit that has destroyed our city. We are gonna turn this around. This is a city that has a population of less than 1,000,000 people with an over Speaker 1 (01:16:19): $12,000,000,000 Speaker 6 (01:16:21): budget. The residents of this city have been extremely generous in providing us with the resources we need to make a difference. And now the priorities we need to make must be to protect them, must be to turn things around in their neighborhoods, when you are in a room full of people, I would say probably anywhere between Speaker 1 (01:16:42): 90 95% Speaker 6 (01:16:44): of folks could raise their hand and say, that either their car has been broken into broken into, or they've been a victim in some capacity or another. That is not okay. that is not acceptable. Jason Calacanis (01:16:56): Saks, I thought crime was down and that everything was great, and that we were gonna defund the police what is happening here? What what's the big turnaround? David Sacks (01:17:04): Well, it's it's exactly what I was saying that well, first of all, I loved it. I love what she said. It's exactly what I've been saying for the last year, and it's really great to hear her say the same types of things. I started this this campaign back in January after New Year's Eve, you had those to women get killed by a repeat offender who was released by Jason Boudin. And then as I dug into it, I saw that he was doing this all the time as part of his agenda of carceration. So and, you know, a year later, like, we've talked about throughout this this whole time, and the city is totally degenerated. into some sort of dystopian Gotham like city. This did feel like the beginning of a Batman movie. I mean, it was a strong statement. I thought it was great. This is just the beginning of what needs to be done. I predict that London breed is going to eventually butt heads with, there is no way that he will support this agenda of fixing the city. She wants to in increase the police presence. So like you said, she is gonna refund the police not defund the police. Chase of Woodin is I mean, the only people he's passionate about prosecuting are police officers. Yeah. So we have a huge problem that the police department is actually we have too few of them. We are understaffed. Jason Calacanis (01:18:17): We would take that job. David Sacks (01:18:18): it's not just because of budgets, also because they're demoralized and they've got, you know, they've got this prosecutor. By the way, there was a case just recently where a repeat offender bashed a vodka ball over the head of a cop And the Chase just announced that he's getting sentimental health diversion instead of being prosecuted. I wanna -- What? You can attack a cop Jason Calacanis (01:18:43): and not go to jail in the city of San Francisco. David Sacks (01:18:46): Yes. This is why the cops are demoralized. So in order for London Brie to the problem. She is going and I think she's on the right track here. He's gotta go. So here's my prediction. On February 15th, they are having the recall election for the education board. And I predict that that board at least 2 of the 3 are gonna be recalled. The parents are sick and tired are sick and tired of it. They are gonna be out I think that's gonna embolden London Brie to then support the recall of Jason Boudin in the June -- Wow. Speaker 1 (01:19:16): -- David Sacks (01:19:16): election And and I think between that Speaker 1 (01:19:18): -- Jason Calacanis (01:19:18): She needs to pick his replacement when it comes Chamath Palihapitiya (01:19:20): to that. David Sacks (01:19:20): Exactly. So Jason Calacanis (01:19:21): I -- That's what she's doing. She basically flipped. She was quiet up until this point, And now she realized Speaker 1 (01:19:27): -- -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:19:27): left are slowly eating it themselves. Jason Calacanis (01:19:29): Yeah. I mean, I think this is self preservation. Right, Chamath? I mean, if she didn't make a change here, She's gonna be out of office too. She'll get recalled. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:19:35): It's not self preservation. They're realizing that these policies don't work. moral absolutism didn't work on the left or the right. These guys have tried in a small scale to do what A certain fraction of the Democratic Party has been trying to do at a national level, it doesn't work. Overspending, under policing, under educating, it doesn't do anything. David Sacks (01:19:59): There I think there's gonna be a schism. I think it started after the young in victory in Virginia, and I think it's gonna accelerate throughout for the next year and especially after the Red Wave in November 2022. There's gonna be a schism between liberal pragmatists and these extreme radical progressives. I think London Brie represents she's obviously very liberal, but I think she's pragmatic. I think she wants to find solutions that work. Whereas Chase of Boudin is a radical ideologue who will never change no much no matter how much evidence is presented to him those policies don't work in Jason Calacanis (01:20:32): a backfiring. David Friedberg (01:20:32): I think there's a simple formula. The person who gets you into the mess is likely not the right person to get you out of the mess. And Speaker 1 (01:20:40): -- Jason Calacanis (01:20:41): Well, Seth -- You David Friedberg (01:20:41): know, she she talks about San Francisco having a $12,000,000,000 year budget, can you guys imagine if she was the CEO of a tech company that had $12,000,000,000 a year in OpEx, and she ran the business into the ground, would the board say go ahead, turn it around? Absolutely not. the board would step in. And in this case, the board is the citizens of San Francisco, and they would say, let's find the right person to turn this thing around. And while she stood up and said the right things and and made maybe it would echo. And I think, you know, even if it echoes within David Sachs's heart, I'm sure it's echoing in a lot of hearts of more liberal San Francisco's But I think that the apathy being asleep at the wheel and allowing the disorganization across the departments within that city is ultimately her responsibility. And I don't think that any amount of, you know, verbiage or action she might take at this point justifies the damage she has caused while being the leader of that city. And I think that you'll and and by the way, I think you'll see to Saks's point earlier, I think you'll see the same response across the nation where folks feel like the the leaders that got them into the mess that they're in locally in cities and and elsewhere around this country are gonna vote those folks out of office because they wanna change. And it's the same reason we saw folks vote Trump into office and the same reason we saw folks vote Trump out of office. The more you wanna see a change, the more you're gonna make a change with your political So right. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:22:12): Friedberg is so so right. There is a phenomenal Twitter account. His name is Rob Henderson, and he's like a PhD student right now. I think he's in Europe on scholarship. You know, he's this this this guy has has an incredible background, which you can talk about later. But Rob Henderson has this thing which I love, which is that, you know, a lot of this stuff is born out of what he calls luxury belief Right? Like, defunding the police is a luxury belief if you're like this rich middle class cloistered person that can sit behind the gate, have armed security, yadayadayada. because you're not living in the ghetto where the byproducts of the byproduct of defunding the police are borne out or decarceration are borne out. Or, you know, if you send your kid to a private school, you can completely be for all these crazy radical ideas like defunding, you know, advanced placement, defunding the gifted program, because if you're kids smart, you'll just pay for a tutor and you can do whatever you want. Those luxury beliefs exist more in the progressive left in such a small cohort of people than in any other political class that we have in America. And when they get a hold of power, they've now had the right to show whether those luxury beliefs can actually work. The data says it Jason Calacanis (01:23:28): doesn't. Okay. That's all the confidence. I mean, how about that? Like, just keep people safe and make the education Chamath Palihapitiya (01:23:34): system These luxury beliefs belong in sociological sociology tech books, in anthropological articles, they they they're they're better off in, like, where beat Nick, smoked pot, and talk about it over a glass of wine. David Sacks (01:23:47): We clean up something just so look. I have no special desire to defend London breed. I'm sure there are many Chamath Palihapitiya (01:23:53): I knew I knew that. I knew that. No. I knew that. David Sacks (01:23:56): I'm sure there are many better Are Jason Calacanis (01:23:58): you wearing a London breed brand sweater? Is that -- Yeah. David Sacks (01:24:01): It's tough. Speaker 1 (01:24:02): -- Jason Calacanis (01:24:02): lender breed? Tom Ford. Tom Ford. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Tom Ford, Tom Ford. Top Ford. David Sacks (01:24:07): Look. I I'm sure there are better mayors. But just to I I I think I think we have to sort of temper what you said based on the realities of politics since Cisco, which are which are this. We actually have a weak mayor. The mayor can't do anything. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:24:20): Yeah. David Sacks (01:24:20): We're a supervisor. Right? Without the boat the board of supervisors. Right. and the soups are controlled right now by a bunch of crazies. Wackos. Dean Preston Jason Calacanis (01:24:29): and Matt David Sacks (01:24:30): Ingredion, who are who are allies of Chasaboudin. Okay? So London And Brie, I think, wants to do some good things. I think that she is more pragmatic than these ideologues. I think that she could have been more aggressive and more outspoken about standing up to them. However, earlier. Okay? But I think she is now doing the right thing in terms of the speed she just gave, basically calling for refunding the police, and we're sick of the bullshit, and we're gonna take action. Those are the right things to be saying right now. She did the right thing in terms of supporting the recall of this school board. And what I'm saying is, let's give her a chance to see if she does come out Speaker 1 (01:25:08): 100%. 100%. -- David Sacks (01:25:09): of the recall of Chase of Boudin because I think that's where it's headed. And if she gets on board with that, as she shows she's pragmatic, She may actually survive Speaker 1 (01:25:16): -- Jason Calacanis (01:25:16): Well, you said -- -- fundraiser. If she gets Chamath Palihapitiya (01:25:19): out -- It's happening all around the country. Right? We saw Bill De Blasio, who was the first real progressive leftist elected to a major city -- Confident. -- completely ran New York City into the ground. Now Eric Adams is gonna go clean it up. Right? We had Glenn Youngkin who basically ran a centrist campaign take over Virginia. It's over. Trevor Johnny. Let's call it. It's over Stantrism pragmatism enough of these extreme polar opposites. Okay? Jason Calacanis (01:25:46): Right. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:25:47): Let let Antifa and the Proud Boys go and make love to each other and some deserted Allen. It's over. It's done. Jason Calacanis (01:25:52): Oh, that is the funniest thing I heard. Somebody said to me, like, proud boys and what's the other group? both keepers or something. They they this woman who's gay, what we've said. She's like, oh, you know, it was Rachel Maddow. She's like, I think these are, like, gay activist groups. Aren't they? Like, Proud Boys? It sounds like a gay activist group. David Sacks (01:26:14): I think we're seeing the the correction of the overreaction, the pandemic cause. What what Neil Ferguson calls pandemic politics that we that the pandemic bred a strain of radical politics that we saw all over the country. And I think Speaker 1 (01:26:28): -- Jason Calacanis (01:26:28): On both sides. David Sacks (01:26:29): And I think the country is gonna come out of that. Jason Calacanis (01:26:31): Did you see these idiots go to Cheesecake Factory and do a sit in without their masks on? And that that's their form of protest. It's like we're gonna go into the Cheesecake Factory. David Sacks (01:26:41): What are you talking about? Jason Calacanis (01:26:42): It was a Cheesecake Factory protest. And now it's going national. With people who are anti mask, anti vaxx, they're don't wanna have to show their cards or wear a mask when they walk to their seats. So they're literally doing sit ins at Cheesecake Factory. I was like, I would protest going to a Cheesecake Factory. I I'm not gonna protest in a Cheesecake Factory is. David Sacks (01:27:01): Well, Some people aren't on a diet like you, Jake, and they enjoy cheesecake. Jason Calacanis (01:27:05): Oh, well, where are you at? What's the number? Zach, just give us the number. What's your David Sacks (01:27:08): weight today? Speaker 1 (01:27:08): -- 170. Jason Calacanis (01:27:09): I'm 174. So I'm right I'm I'm coming right up behind you. You hear the steps. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:27:13): You hear the socksie socksie. I'm gonna tell you, bro. I love your sweater. I'm gonna drive to the city, come to the mausoleum and make love to that sweater on. Jason Calacanis (01:27:20): Oh my god. Alright, everybody. We'll see you next week on the Lovey Bas podcast. Love you besties. Love you, Saks. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:27:27): Maybe, Zach. David Sacks (01:27:27): Back at you. We'll let your winners ride. Jason Calacanis (01:27:32): Rainman, David Sachs. David Sacks (01:27:36): And it said -- We open source it to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with it. on air when they're trying. Jason Calacanis (01:27:50): Besty's are gone. Don't hurt to death. David Friedberg (01:27:52): That is plenty of dogs a noise in your driveway. Jason Calacanis (01:28:00): We should all just get a room and just have a think you, George, because they're all just useless. It's like it's like sexual friendship that they just need to release somehow. David Friedberg (01:28:08): What? You're the bee peeve. What? David Sacks (01:28:11): Pure feet. Beaky wet. Jason Calacanis (01:28:13): We need to get mercies are back.