一位主持人感染新冠、Delta 变异株突破、亿万富翁太空竞赛

Speaker 1 (00:00:00): This week, we're gonna play our favorite new game show. Guess who's got COVID? Yes. That's right. Somebody on the pod. Some Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:08): of those got COVID. It it it it's not the me. Jason Calacanis (00:00:14): Oh, god. Oh, you're being rude in the game, Jamal. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:16): Oh, sorry. So here's the game. Jason Calacanis (00:00:19): Person who got COVID. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:20): Have they been vaccinated or not? Jason Calacanis (00:00:22): Okay. All four of us have been vaccinated. We covered that on our previous spot. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:25): So everybody's vaccinated double vaxx, Jason Calacanis (00:00:27): double vaxx. -- double vaxx. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:28): Did we all get Pfizer? Pfizer. Pfizer. Pfizer. Jason Calacanis (00:00:33): Okay. So Pfizer across the board. We got quads. And this is a breakthrough infection. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:41): Has anybody taken a Z Pak after a night of party? Jason Calacanis (00:00:46): I have. Oh my god. I hope you're the pot lasted Speaker 1 (00:00:51): 30. 99 Jason Calacanis (00:00:52): episodes. I'm done. Oh, it Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:53): was good. I was good. Jason Calacanis (00:00:54): Okay. So number 1, clue number 1. This bestie got a breakthrough infection outdoors. at a restaurant. Number 1, got it outdoors. Number 2, got it from somebody who was also vaccinated. Number 3, this bestie does not fly commercial. And he's not a fan of being interrupted, and he is not an evangelical. David. The breakthrough of action. David Sacks. David Sacks. David Sacks (00:01:25): I'm glad that my getting a breakthrough Speaker 5 (00:01:28): case of COVID is This comedy fodder for you somehow. I'll let your winter ride. Rainman Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:37): David Sanders. Speaker 6 (00:01:41): And I said -- We open source it to the fans, and they just got a reason. David Friedberg (00:01:45): Love US. We Sacksy poop, break it down. Walk us through the like, how what happened and then how you felt. David Sacks (00:01:54): Yeah. Okay. So what happened -- And we're Jason Calacanis (00:01:56): glad you're safe. obviously, obviously. We wouldn't be joking. You're still living away. You lost five pounds. So -- Yeah. -- yeah. Yes. You may wanna read some Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:04): of the beautiful text messages we sent you when we found out this Jason Calacanis (00:02:07): week. Yes. Speaker 5 (00:02:10): Hey, Jason. Well, what did you say, Jason? You said it. Jason Calacanis (00:02:14): I was just like, wow. Big out who we could recruit for the 4th spot. Yeah. Keith or Boy, we get Peter Thiel in here. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:20): I said that I really, really hope you didn't die But if you did, I would love to have your plane as a support plane for my plane. Speaker 5 (00:02:28): And I was thinking, you know what? Jason Calacanis (00:02:29): I might be pro San Francisco. If you die, I could I might want Speaker 1 (00:02:32): -- David Sacks (00:02:32): Well, sorry guys. I'm gonna live. Sorry, Jason. I'm gonna live. Here's basically what happened. Okay? Is so Tuesday of last week, I had dinner with a few friends. And then my friend Speaker 1 (00:02:45): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:45): Just wear out outdoors in a restaurant. Yeah. David Sacks (00:02:47): I'll tell you exactly where we were at matsahisa in LA. which has Speaker 1 (00:02:50): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:51): Oh, the outdoor parking lot. Speaker 5 (00:02:52): Yeah. David Sacks (00:02:52): Yes. The outdoor parking lot area, which is a covered outdoor area. So, you know, these, like, covered areas are effectively inside because it traps Sierra in there. But in any event, we had dinner there. The next day, he woke up with a fever and sore throat. He went and got a COVID test. He tested positive He is also double vaxxed with Pfizer. Okay? So and and I reported this to you guys last week on last week's show. So I went out right away on Wednesday, got a COVID test was negative. I repeated the test on Friday was negative. And then Sunday rolls around, and I wake up and I got a fever. I don't really have a sore throat, but I've got kind of a I'd say an occasional dry cough. And I've got and I've got some sinus congestion. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:03:37): David mild fever or, like, like, 99.9 or, like, Speaker 1 (00:03:41): 102.1? David Sacks (00:03:43): It topped off at about 99.9. And -- It's Jason Calacanis (00:03:45): barely a fever. Yeah. David Sacks (00:03:47): Barely a fever. Barely fever. But, I mean, it was definitely there. And I took Tylenol and it brought it down to the low ninety nines. And so in the event, first thing Monday morning, I went and got the COVID test. And sure enough, I had COVID, they can't confirm that it's Delta variant, but they think it is because that's what's, like, exploding in LA right now. And so yeah. I mean, look. I mean, The the good news is it's very mild. I mean, I'm it's now Thursday, and I feel like I'm, like, 99% recovered. I don't have a fever anymore. my fever -- Are you 10 days in now? Speaker 1 (00:04:19): This -- No. David Sacks (00:04:20): No. No. No. This is the you know, I I came down with symptoms on this past Sunday, and it's now Thursday. So I'm Speaker 1 (00:04:26): -- Jason Calacanis (00:04:26): And when did were you exposed? David Sacks (00:04:28): Tuesday night. So I was exposed. Yes. You're right. It's about 10 days David Friedberg (00:04:31): from initial exposure. You're convinced that Jason Calacanis (00:04:33): was the only way could have gotten it. Right? David Sacks (00:04:35): Yeah. Because somebody else at the dinner got has symptoms now too. Jason Calacanis (00:04:40): So it's a super spreader at Matsuhisa. David Sacks (00:04:42): Yeah. Yeah. Basically. But it shows you how virulent this new delta variant is. I mean, you've got there were four people out that night plus the person who who had it and 2 out of the 4 basically got it, and we were all vaccinated, including the person who had it. And, of course, he didn't know he had it. He didn't have any symptoms till the next day. So and, you know, I got it I got it 5 days after exposure. It's that 5 days is like clockwork. You know? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:05:14): Did you did you have, like, a pulse ox? Did you measure any of these other things? Did any of that stuff change at all? David Sacks (00:05:20): Yeah. I mean, I've I've have the pulse ox meter, and it's been around 95%. So it is down slightly. Jason Calacanis (00:05:25): You should be, like, 98. Right? David Sacks (00:05:26): Yeah. It is down slightly. It is down slightly. Jason Calacanis (00:05:29): And if you go to 92 or 93, they say go to the emergency room, I think. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:05:33): And and did you self isolate from your family? David Sacks (00:05:37): Yeah. I did. But we were we're lulled a little bit into a a place of overcome this because -- Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:05:43): I think so. David Sacks (00:05:43): I remember I got I got COVID tests on Wednesday, and then Friday, and they're both negative. I thought we're through it. So I was at home And and then and then so my eleven year old got it even though I was isolating. This thing is I mean, This thing is so contagious. So, you know, what I've read is that delta variant is 60% more transmissible than the UK variant, which was the alpha variant. The alpha variant was 60% more transmissible than original COVID. So you're looking at a transmissibility. You multiply those together of two and a half times the original. And the original COVID had an r naught of 2 to 3. So you multiply 2 to 3 by two and a half times, and you're looking at 5 to 8. And, you know, at the age Speaker 1 (00:06:24): -- -- Jason Calacanis (00:06:24): the audience what that means in terms of reality. David Sacks (00:06:26): It means the r naught is how many people does the average infected person transmit before they know they have it and can fully self isolate? And So you're going from the original COVID was 2 to 3. Delta variant might be like 8. We're getting up into, like, smallpox territory with this thing. And it's all the more transmissible because, you know, vaccinated people can get it. You know, the the Israel data that we talked about on the show last week was 64 percent effectiveness. That Israel reported that the effectiveness of Pfizer had gone from, like, 95 percent to 64% in terms of preventing infection. So you have maybe a third of vaccinated people can get it, and then they can spread it. without even knowing they have it. So I think we're at the point now where if you're not vaccinated, you're gonna get you're gonna get the delta variant. We're seeing now cases explode, you know, all over the country. Even in LA County, they've now had a the 5 day average of cases has jumped 500% in 1 month. So pretty and, Jason, you've tweeted this. If you are not vaccinated, you are choosing to get the delta variant at this point. I mean, this thing is extremely transmissible. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:07:39): That's what there was a great tweet by Scott Adams, the guy who the cartoonist who I wouldn't -- Who Jason Calacanis (00:07:45): listens to the pod, by the way? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:07:46): Who does listen to the pod? he had a he had a really great quote. He's like, today is either Wednesday Yeah. For those that are vaccinated or yet another day where the unvaccinated amongst you are likely to get COVID. something like that. Right? Was that the Speaker 1 (00:08:06): 2 -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:06): Yeah. Yeah. It was basically Jason Calacanis (00:08:07): today's Wednesday for people who are vaccinated or it is the day you're gonna get you know, the the virus. David Sacks (00:08:13): Yeah. We we gotta stop stop messing around with this thing. Now here's some here's some good news, actually, is So on on the the Wednesday when we found out that my friend had tested positive. But, again, I was still negative. I had no symptoms. I had nothing. I told my wife, she had gotten one shot. She hadn't gotten the second shot. And we were on the fence about whether my thirteen year old should get the vaccine. They both raced out that day, got vaccinated. Speaker 5 (00:08:37): Of David Sacks (00:08:37): course. We did not get the virus. So they had basically, call it, 3 or 4 days of the of the vaccine to trigger an immune response in their system, and it protected them. They did not get sick. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:48): And and, David, did you take anything else like prednisone that you took nothing no steroid? No. David Sacks (00:08:53): Nothing. The the only stuff I so my friend did take he he did get prescribed prednisone. My doctor thought that was unnecessary or a bad idea for me. All I took okay, was Tylenol to control the fever, and I took flonase to reduce the sinus congestion. Look. I mean, I don't wanna overstate this. It was a very mild cold, for me. And that is why I think everybody should run on and get vaccinated. Jason Calacanis (00:09:15): What did you pair it with? Like, a a Papi van Winkkel, or did you go with a screaming eagle? What did you pair your girlfriend? Free bird. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:22): Also, the worst part is Matsuhisa has such a shit wine list. You probably drank this, like, random swill. That's probably Speaker 1 (00:09:27): -- -- Jason Calacanis (00:09:28): drinking some. Like, McGiri Saki in all likelihood. Friedberg last week, I was asking you or maybe it was 2 weeks ago, I was considering getting the Moderna because I was I think getting 2 of these things will boost you into the high nineties you said I was crazy. Has your position changed on that? Yes. k. Explain. because this is the one time I'm ever gonna be right about science a week before you. David Friedberg (00:09:52): So I I think the I think the data up to that point didn't necessarily kind of validate that additional level of action, but now it does. And I think new data is coming out. So I saw an executive from a pharmaceutical company a few days ago Speaker 1 (00:10:07): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:10:08): Okay. Speaker 1 (00:10:09): -- David Friedberg (00:10:09): who broke down some statistics that they looked at in Israel And what they were identifying was that of the newly infected cases in Israel of people that are vaccinated Nearly two thirds of those people were vaccinated in January. About Speaker 1 (00:10:28): 30% David Friedberg (00:10:29): were vaccinated in February, and less than 10% were vaccinated in March. I'm just approximating, and I'm and I and I'm I'm I'm just kind of transcribing, you know, from from kind of what I remember him saying. And so he said, you know, the the more recent vaccinations we're not seeing breakthrough cases, breakthrough infections. So the the more recently your vaccinated the the less likely you are to have this. And then I I I met with a a pretty well known virologist a few days ago as well who highlighted for me that we are seeing antibody titers decline over time in people, but there's other studies that are showing which means that the antibodies against COVID in your blood after you get the vaccine slowly go down over time. So we're seeing that. We knew that. Right? We we knew that to some extent, but there was another study showed that memory b cells b cells are the immune cells that make antibodies, and they remember the antibodies to make. And they were worried, are we losing those b cells in the human body? And another study found, actually, they're in your lymph nodes. So they they they went in, they pulled them out, and they identified, look, that these b cells are persistent. we are having a persistent immune memory to COVID when we get exposed to the vaccine or the virus. And and so, you know, those two data points Both of them kind of said, I think we're gonna need to do a booster very soon for everyone, and we're gonna need to get a third shot. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:11:49): If the tale, Friedberg seems like it's, like, 6 months. David Friedberg (00:11:52): Yeah. It sounds like he was saying that you're gonna see an efficacy drop to that kinda 2 thirds level after about 6 months of your after getting your your vaccine. And, you know, he said, look, this delta variant is virulent, but, you know, the the more pressing kind of point isn't that it's this variant that's breaking through. it's that the efficiency of these vaccines at this point looks like it's such that we're gonna need to do boosters. Now Pfizer went to the White House this week with some of this data. and they presented it to the White House. And the White House said, if you guys follow the news, I I I I'm hearing this. I'm I'm repeating what I read in news reports at this point. But what they said was, you know, we're not ready to kinda commit to doing booster shots for a couple of reasons. One is are a lot of people out there that haven't had their first shots. And we're seeing the people that are having these breakthrough infections almost universally, not always, but very large majority having very mild symptoms and not getting hot hospitalized, and the and the death rate is still very, very low. In other words, the vaccine did its job. The vaccine didn't didn't prevent you know, an infection, meaning that the virus starts replicating in a in a in a way that's uncontrolled in your body, but that your immune system had enough of a defense to keep it from causing severe disease in your body. Speaker 1 (00:13:10): 99% Jason Calacanis (00:13:11): of the people going to the hospital are unvaccinated it. Right? David Friedberg (00:13:16): Exactly. And so we're seeing that that great success still with the vaccine, but they are seeing, and there are now studies that you know, I think, referenced to your earlier point that, you know, if you put a different RNA strain, RNA sequence into your body, which Moderna and Pfizer have slightly different you know, sequences, you end up creating different antibodies and having more diversity of antibodies can kind of provide greater immunity. So it's almost certain we're gonna get boosters and that we're gonna end up seeing them hit the market next month in September. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:46): Is the is the booster different than the original. So for example, if I get a Pfizer booster, am am I only basically getting still an expression of that RNA strand that I'm supposed to basically like, is it the same formulation, the same dosage? David Friedberg (00:14:02): So so both of those options are still up in the air. And so we may still get the same vaccines that we were getting before. You could go get a Moderna shot. You could go get another Pfizer shot of the exact same RNA sequence that you got before, or they may introduce some new ones. And so all the pharma companies are proposing both. approaches, and they're pursuing both pads right now, and we'll see where we end up. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:14:24): And what about swapping between an RNA approach and a traditional vaccine approach? So getting j and j plus Moderna or Pfizer versus like, there's a lot of a b testing we need to do to figure out what is the most efficacious and useful capital. Jason Calacanis (00:14:36): This is exactly like the this reminds me exactly of HIV where it took 10 years for them to figure out what cocktail actually worked the best Chamath Palihapitiya (00:14:44): And now look HIV is I mean, it's it's it's kind Jason Calacanis (00:14:47): of like -- Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:14:47): Nothing. It's really not that not that bad. And the way that we probably, for those of us in our forties, have it emblazoned in our mind is how bad it is versus how bad it is really -- -- a death sentence. It wouldn't -- It seemed like a death sentence. And today, it's kind of more it's more manageable than frankly Speaker 1 (00:15:01): -- David Friedberg (00:15:01): It's a chronic disease now. That's manageable. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:15:03): It's like having diabetes or something. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:15:05): I have another crazy statement here, which is that if you take the the case fatality rate of COVID. And now you think about the fact that there's gonna be, call it, 60% of America that's vaccinated, and then every 6 months we'll be getting boosters. And then you have the Petri dish on the other side of the 40%. where you'll just be ripping through variant after variant after variant. Eventually, it stands to reason that if 40% of Americans remain unvaccinated 2 or 3 years from now, the odds that there will be a strain that is the killer strain that does meaningful damage to those people, I think, is basically a 100%. And if you think about a case fatality rate that's meaningfully high what you're effectively going to do is start to call these people from the earth. And that is a crazy idea, but that's what folks who choose to not get vaccinated are setting themselves up. Jason Calacanis (00:16:02): I mean, the quintessential, you know -- Is that Chamath Palihapitiya (00:16:06): about probabilities? Like, am I getting something wrong here? Probabilistically, isn't that Speaker 1 (00:16:10): -- David Sacks (00:16:10): That's what I'm cerned about. And it's not just Americans not getting vaccinated. It's the rest of the world. I mean, even if we got to extraordinarily extraordinarily high vaccination rates in the US, there's gonna be large you know, numbers of people outside the US who never get vaccinated will continue to be a petri dish. To to give you to, you know, comparison the common cold has 1800 variants. That's why we can't get vaccinated. So, you know, we're on the delta variant right now. I think they actually have numbered variants up to Lambda. We're gonna run out of letters of the alphabet really soon. You know, how long will it be until there is there are these killer variants that I mean, look. I mean, that could punch through that can punch through the the vaccines. It's pretty scary, actually. And I would say that this is, like, quite a come down off where we were just 2 weeks ago, you know, where we thought the Pfizer vaccine was still 95% effective. Now it's 64% effective. I mean, look. I I I do wanna, like, underscore that the the vaccine worked in the sense that what I got was super mild. I mean, it was really just like getting a cold. I mean, I didn't need to take anything more serious than Tylenol. But but it does show that the virus is mutating really fast is highly transmissible, and I'm not sure what to say. You Chamath Palihapitiya (00:17:25): still have it. You still have it. Right? David Sacks (00:17:26): I still have it. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:17:27): Yeah. So when would you get tested to figure out when you don't have it anymore? David Sacks (00:17:31): I'll I'll probably go in tomorrow, you know, because it feels it feels to me like I'm about 98% better Chamath Palihapitiya (00:17:36): Friedberg, is there is there any data about the pattern of people who are vaccinated getting this thing? Like, is there Remember how, like, you know, there was early data that showed, you know, women had a different immune response than men. And, like, people who were What was it? O positive or, you know, a certain blood type effectively had inborn immunity? David Friedberg (00:17:56): I haven't heard or read anything like that. And so this is still an emerging issue. I think, you know -- Yeah. David Sacks (00:18:03): By the way, I I was vaccinated a few months ago, guys. Like, I mean, I am, like, reaching Jason Calacanis (00:18:07): with that latest. You're a 3 o'clock. David Friedberg (00:18:09): Right? When was your second shot? David Sacks (00:18:12): Basically, like, a few months ago. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:18:14): Yeah. It's -- Mine was in March. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:18:16): One thing I think it's worth highlighting just to reinforce the vaccine importance you know, the virologist, the infectious disease guy I met with was telling me that, you know, one way to think about this is the more opportunity the virus has to replicate, the more opportunity it has to evolve. And so when you're vaccinated and you have a mild case, and your body recovers in a few days. Just to give you guys a sense, the difference when someone that's not vaccinated has COVID and they've measured the viral load in the nodes from day 1 when they start having their infectious kind of presentation to day 4, which is when they peak. The viral load is 10 to the ape higher. okay, that's like a 100,000,000 times higher. And so that's a 100,000,000 times more viruses that are being produced on day 4 than we're being produced on day 1. when you were already showing symptoms. So every time a virus is being produced and is replicating within your body, it's getting a chance to mutate. The important point he emphasized was what matters most as we get the most number of people on planet Earth vaccinated as fast as possible. Because the faster you can get more people vaccinated, the fewer opportunities you give the virus to replicate and find itself a mutational path that can ultimately break through all these vaccines and and and cause real severe lots of life. And so the the, you know, the presentation that Saks kind of described is is encouraging in the sense that it it likely means that the virus did not create that. There wasn't that much of a viral load or a huge viral load relative to what there would have been if he wasn't vaccinated. And so even though he did have an infection, you know, the virus didn't get as much of a chance to spread to other people, it didn't get Speaker 1 (00:19:53): -- David Sacks (00:19:53): Well, but it but it did, because my friend who I got it from after 1 having dinner 1 night. He was double vaxx with Pfizer. And in my my, you know, my eleven year old daughter got it. Yeah. It's for her. Again, it's just like a cold. Yeah. But so this thing is highly transmissible. And Speaker 1 (00:20:12): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:20:13): What is it? Speaker 1 (00:20:13): -- David Sacks (00:20:13): it changes changes the equation, I think, on some policy questions. So -- Yeah. That's what I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:20:18): was gonna ask you. What does it mean for the fall? What now? What? David Sacks (00:20:21): So 2 weeks ago, I thought that because I was vaccinated, I didn't need to care whether other people were vaccinated because the you know, Up until that point, the data was you were 95% plus, you know, effectiveness. So why care if other people get vaccinated? Now we can say for sure that that unvaccinated people can or vaccinated people even can get other people can get you sick even if you are vaccinated. So I think it absolutely changes the equation on so, for example, colleges were requiring students to get vaccinated to return in the fall. like before, I didn't think that necessarily made a lot of sense because if you wanted to protect yourself, you just get vaccinated. But now it makes sense. Right? Because the college needs to get to herd immunity to protect everybody against, you know, potentially Speaker 1 (00:21:09): -- David Friedberg (00:21:09): Right. Speaker 1 (00:21:09): -- David Sacks (00:21:10): Delta variant. Right? So I do think it changes the equation quite a bit, and I think we need to make a big push here to get everyone vaccinated. Speaker 1 (00:21:17): -- Jason Calacanis (00:21:17): in fact, Saks for vax passports, which as, you know, libertarian, I think, is, I think, part of your politic I think everybody on this call is I've got a little libertarian. Like, you gotta make your own choices here. But does it change your thinking about that? i. e. employers, colleges, city, state workers, teachers are either get vaxxed or don't come back to the office and you're fired. David Sacks (00:21:45): Well, I'll tell you, I I don't like the idea of government having the power to to stick a needle in your arm. But I do think that employers, workplaces, schools, I think it's very reasonable for them to say, if you wanna come back to the workplace, you have to get vaccinated because your unvaccinated status creates a risk. It creates an externality for everybody else. Speaker 1 (00:22:07): -- Jason Calacanis (00:22:07): able to fire you. If you're a teacher, should they be able to fire you if you're a bus driver, if you're a pilot, Absolutely. Speaker 1 (00:22:14): 100%. Jason Calacanis (00:22:15): Here's the craziness. This is a a self inflicted wound. We are down to only Speaker 1 (00:22:19): 700,000 Jason Calacanis (00:22:20): vaccines being given a day. We peeked We had the ability to do 5,000,000 shots a day at the peak. Back in April, we hit over 5,000,000 shots in one day in the United States And that's a country where, you know, whatever, 270,000,000 adults of you know, were able to get it. In other words, 2% of the pop adult population in a single day could have gotten it. Now we're down to 700. We have over a billion vaccines sitting on shelves. 80 percent of Democrats have received one shot compared to 49 percent of Republicans 27% of Republicans say that they won't get vaccinated under any circumstances compared to Speaker 1 (00:22:55): 3% Jason Calacanis (00:22:56): of Democrats answering that question. the same way. And an additional 9% will only do so if required. Again, 3% of Democrats said they would only do so required. So that's 36% are opting out for I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:23:07): get it, but it's because we allowed it to become a position. Meaning, it's not it's not like anybody has a position on breathing. Breathing is not a political position. Right? It's not like I choose to not breathe or drinking water or trying to you know? Like, these are, like, eating three meals a day if you can. We have allowed the most basic of issues, in this case, you know, collective public health to be politicized in a way, and that is entirely the government's fault. David Sacks (00:23:35): It's a government's fault and and it's the media's fault and the media because -- The Chamath Palihapitiya (00:23:39): media's exacerbated it so that they can have power. David Sacks (00:23:42): People on the conservative side of the Spectrum have learned to distrust the media and big corporations because and government because they've been lied to so often, most recently with all yeah. Right. Sure. But most recently with the Lab League theory. And so, you know, there's this suspicion on the right, like, what aren't they telling us? You know? Now look, I think we gotta get over this. I think, you know, we need to get everyone vaccinated for all the reasons that Freebrook said. Or look. Everyone's gonna get Delta variant. I mean, Maybe this is a good news is that we can rapidly get to herd immunity by everyone getting Delta variant. David Friedberg (00:24:13): Well, that's the inevitable outcome for any infectious disease. Right? Highly infectious disease is either you can vaccinate or everyone's gonna get it, and it's gonna, you know Speaker 1 (00:24:21): -- David Sacks (00:24:21): I mean, you kinda delta variant maybe than whatever the know, whatever Jason Calacanis (00:24:25): the -- -- dangerous deadly one is. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:24:26): Let me just highlight what I'm most concerned about. I I am most concerned about what's what's happening with Saks. Just anecdotally speaking, I'm not gonna speak to the I'll speak to one statistic. But, like, anecdotally speaking, I'm hearing this happening more more frequently. I don't know about you guys, other friends, other people you know, but a lot of other people I'm hearing about their double vax that are now getting COVID. So as that starts to happen, the implications for the economy, I think, are pretty significant because I think people, whether there's a policy change or not, people are gonna get scared again. And people, if we're not kind of enforcing economic lockdown, people will go into social lockdown and we're gonna revisit, you know, more of the behavior we saw over the past year where people are gonna be nervous to travel people are gonna be nervous to fly. People are gonna be nervous to go to restaurants. And, you know, the downstream consequences of everyone kinda locking up again, even if the government doesn't enforce lockups, could be pretty catastrophic, Speaker 1 (00:25:23): especially -- Are you feeling that Jason Calacanis (00:25:24): way yourself, Friedberg? In other words -- Am I gonna lock myself up? Are you gonna go to dinner? Are you gonna go to travel to Italy or to, you know, Japan or, you know, would you go to Disneyland with your kids? So how is it affecting you your personal behavior being a man of science? So David Friedberg (00:25:41): so my personal circumstances are a little different right now. Not not to get into it. Just with my, you know, my wife's pregnant, and we're moving houses. And so we we've got a bunch of reasons why we're not traveling and and and exposing ourselves unnecessarily right now. But I I would say that at this point, you know, if all other things being equal, would I go to Disneyland with my kids, I would probably wait right now 6 to 12 weeks to see what happens here. David Sacks (00:26:09): Right. Well, David Friedberg (00:26:09): I'll tell so I I I think, like, if I if I'm feeling that way now, think a lot of people are gonna be feeling that way in in the next 4 weeks as they hear about more friends getting COVID. Now -- Yeah. Speaker 1 (00:26:18): -- Jason Calacanis (00:26:18): the the, David Friedberg (00:26:18): you know, the good news is the hospitals and so I am most concerned, we are in a very, very, very, very delicate economic recovery right now. And, you know, we have put out so much money to stimulate this economy Everyone is so walking on, like, the razor's edge to keep things, you know, growing. We were afraid of inflation lumber prices today, by the way. are lower than they were when this whole kind of inflationary thing started, and everyone was freaking out about it. So, you know, lumber prices are lower than they were at the start of the year. which is, you know, like, a a lot of this kind of inflation risk has kinda come out of the equation already, so the markets have taken that pricing out. And now we're gonna be in a circumstance where people cancel their travel. People might cancel their their restaurants. People might stop going to the office again, stop, you know, getting in the car, etcetera, etcetera. So I am most concerned about, like, the psychological effects of of what we're seeing with the these breakthrough infections, the the frequency of them. Now if you look at the Israel data so Israel had zero depths for 2 weeks. They're now averaging about one death a day. And despite this you know, huge increment. They're getting about, I think, 500 breakthrough infections a day right now. So that is good statistical news. Right? Statistically, these breakthrough infections are not fatal. They're not causing hospitalizations. They're they're you know, if you kind of did the math going back a year and said these are the statistics of COVID, people would be like, okay. No big deal. Let's move on. It's a it's a it's a tough kind of virus. But because of the circumstances where we we we are kind of under these these feelings that this is a fatal disease and could cause fatalities, those statistics don't matter. The fear is what matters, and people are gonna start to behave quite differently, I think, in the next few weeks. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:27:52): I have a slightly different point of view here. But I think, Friedberg, you're you're I think you're right in some respects, but I don't think that it's gonna come from people. I don't think people I think people are exhausted, and they wanna go back to life is normal. Yeah. And I think this summer was a window into some amount of normalcy for a lot of us, and I don't think we really do wanna go back. And so I think what's what's really going to happen is there's going to be essentially some form of class warfare. And instead of rich versus poor and left versus right, it's sort of between people who believe in science and then the ideologically dogmatic who refused to get it. And that's gonna play itself out economically. I agree with you. There's going to be meaningful forms of economic discrimination against people who are unnecessarily compounding risk for the ideally touch wood, has a common cold, like David said, and move the fuck on. And if we are prevented from doing so, because economic policy and healthcare policy has to constantly get rerated for a cohort of people who could protect themselves and everybody else but chooses not to there is going to be a real pushback on that. The second thing that I I think is gonna happen is politicians proved that if you give them a window to seize power, they will do it. And I think what's really gonna happen in the fall is if there's even a small modicum of risk which there will be as we just talked about. Jason Calacanis (00:29:26): Yeah. It it exists now. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:28): I think it's the politicians that are gonna wanna jump all over this and say, okay, guys. you know, lockdowns here. You can't do this. You can't do that. Jason Calacanis (00:29:34): So literally Gavin Newsom just did the big grand reopening. California's back, you could see him locking it back up in September. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:40): Oh, this is the best way to it's the best way to snuff out any chance of of the recall going against them is that even if you were angry, you're not gonna be allowed to Basically, it'll be a massive form of voters' oppression. David Sacks (00:29:50): Well, I think that that Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:51): that would backfire David Sacks (00:29:52): on him. That would backfire pretty bad. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:54): You saw the flip flopping that he already did actually on schools where the the government of California basically said, hey, you know, we're gonna mandate a mask policy in the fall. And then Newsom came out because people freaked out and said, actually, no. Each local municipality can figure it out based on, you know, what it what it means for them. The point is, guys, Freebrook is right. These things aren't going away. We have a cohort of people who will continue to allow this thing to become worse than it has to be. And I think that there will be economic repercussions and discrimination against those people for that. And I think economically, we are going to take a step back because politicians will try to slow the economy down again. Jason Calacanis (00:30:39): And and there is definitely from the right not to get political here, but they've been pretty silent about encouraging people to get vaccinated. And, you know, at CPAC and other places, people were cheering. The anti vaxx movement Mitt Romney came out. We don't control conservative media figures so far as I know. At least I don't. That being said, I think it's an enormous error for anyone to suggest that we shouldn't be taking vaccines Look. The politician of vaccination is an outrage and frankly, Moronic. Mitch McConnell came out and says, a polio victim myself when I was young. of study of that disease. It took 70 years, Speaker 1 (00:31:13): 70 Jason Calacanis (00:31:14): years to come up with 2 vaccines that finally ended the polio threat as a result of operation warp speed. We have not 1, not 2, but 3 highly effective vaccines are perplexed by the difficulty we're having finishing the job. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:31:26): This is where you can expect the politically correct companies to act first because there, the woke mob will force some action on this issue. Whether you like it or not, but this is this is where the next petition will come from Apple, where the 2 or 3000 employees who are vaccinated, etcetera, who have people with you know, people in their households with with who are immunologically suppressed. Yeah. And they're gonna say, hey, guys. This is crazy. David Sacks (00:31:52): Well, that that that petition might be the first application that would make sense because those employees are directly impacted by other employees who come to the workplace unvaccinated unlike you know, the issues around Israel or Antonio's book, whatever, that they shouldn't have taken a position on. Jason Calacanis (00:32:06): Wait a second. You're saying Antonio's book wouldn't make them feel safe and getting COVID would make them on say? David Sacks (00:32:11): Yeah. Actually actually, yes. Yes. Jason Calacanis (00:32:13): It needs to be settled. David Sacks (00:32:15): COVID COVID is COVID in the workplace is a real safety issue. Not know, not whether somebody wrote a book 5 years ago. So so I think they do I think employees do have a right to say to their employers, listen, are we gonna be a vaccinated workplace or not? Because it does impact their risk. But but, Jason, to your question about should people change their behavior in light of this news? Okay? In light of the fact that we now are learning about some reduced effectiveness of the vaccines. Here's what I would tell people sitting where I am, this is not a big deal. I mean, for me. Okay? It was not a big deal. It was like a mile cold. I am not gonna change my I'm gonna go back to normal. like my pre COVID behavior. And I would tell you, like, if you're double vaxx, I don't think you need to be that afraid of this because my doctor said they are seeing a bunch of these breakthrough cases, but they're all very mild. It really is, like, getting a cold. Jason Calacanis (00:33:06): I'm I'm not changing my behaviors. I made my I made my decision. My risk assessment is if I get it, then I'm doubly protected. And I'm not gonna wind up in the hospital. I'm gonna focus all my energy. I'm riding my bike and and taking my kids out and having a good time. I'm not going back in lockdown. David Sacks (00:33:21): So I think that's right for you. But but here here's where it gets a little bit complicated. It's my parents who are in their seventies and one of them has an immune condition to ask what they should do. And I said, listen. If I were you guys, I would not be going to public places. I'd be masking up. They're asking me if they should go on a trip. And I said, no. I would actually if I were you, I would lock down until this blows over because they're at elevated risk. And so, yeah, for me, getting COVID was, like, a mild case, but for them, maybe it could be more serious. So Speaker 1 (00:33:49): -- David Friedberg (00:33:49): All it takes is 10% of the population acting like what you just described recommended to your parents, Zach. for there to be economic ripples associated with this this this breakthrough kind of condition for a while. And that that's where I have the most concern is again, like, you know, we're kind of -- You're Jason Calacanis (00:34:05): not concerned about the debts Friedberg. You're concerned about the economic impact of the psychological scars that are now in place. David Friedberg (00:34:11): I will explain I I sent you guys a link to the Reuters article where they covered the press conference with the prime minister of Israel the other day. And, basically, they are taking what they're calling a soft suppression strategy where they're encouraging Israelis to learn to live with the virus, involving the fewest possible restrictions and avoiding 4th national lockdown that could do further harm to the economy. And he said implementing the strategy will entail taking certain risks but in the overall consideration, including economic factors, this is the necessary balance. And so it's a it's a it's a very kind of pointed position that they're coming to. I think the US government, the federal government's gonna have to come to the same one, but we have different states and different local governments that are gonna act differently. And because we've, you know, we have authority vested in those different jurisdictions, you could see different public policy officials take different positions and what we're talking about. If San Francisco said restaurants have to go back to 25% capacity, it would decimate these already struggling small businesses, and there's no more stimulus dollars available. And so you kinda think about this or 10% of people cancel their vacation plans. What's that gonna do to airlines and hotels? So, again, my my concern is are we about to hit a wave of economic ripples that aren't necessarily tied to what is the right thing to do from policy perspective or or a science or health perspective, but really the psychological effects of the scared and concerned saying, you know what? there's more money available. Like, you know, we got bailed out before. We'll get bailed out again. Let's implement a shutdown. Let's implement a lockdown. Let's not go to work. Whatever the the decision tree you may have as a business owner or a policymaker? David Sacks (00:35:51): Well, there there there's an important point here, which is, listen, COVID's gonna be with us for a long time. We're gonna need to make really smart cost benefit analysis, decisions, and how to deal with it. We can't go back to lockdowns because they didn't work, and they were extremely expensive. We spent $10,000,000,000,000 battling COVID last year. We cannot do that again. We don't have the the bullets that are gonna keep firing at this thing like that. We gotta start making intelligent decisions. Zeroism is not gonna work. This idea the the premise of heroism is that we can stamp out every last message of COVID But maybe that was even a possibility when vaccines were 99% effective. But now that they're not, there's no chance of stamping out COVID. So we have got to learn we've got to like like the Israel example, we've got to learn to live with this thing and make smart cost benefit decisions. But I also think, you know, this is kind of a disaster for humanity. We now have this new category of illness that's rapidly mutating. We don't know what the end of it's gonna be. Like I said, there's 1800 variants to the common You Jason Calacanis (00:36:52): know what though David is? David Sacks (00:36:53): That's causing these symptoms. By the way, has anyone noticed how many different symptoms this virus causes in people? There's over 200 -- Well, Jason Calacanis (00:37:01): they worked on it for a long time, David, in fairness. David Sacks (00:37:04): Yes. Exactly. Everyone knows. It's a lab engineered virus that's now plagued on humanity. This is really a disaster. This is gonna, I think, permanently impact human life expectancy. I mean, this is this is a serious problem. Jason Calacanis (00:37:18): We could have avoided this entire thing here in the United States at least if people just took the win? How frustrating is this that we would probably have cases down to a 1000 a day and debts down to 10 a day like Israel if we had just gotten everybody to take 1 of the billions of excess vaccines sitting on shelves and in CVSs and Walgreens across this country, how stupid are we? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:37:46): We don't have the collectivism to to make those actions. So if you think about what's happening in Speaker 1 (00:37:51): -- Jason Calacanis (00:37:51): Israel did Chamath Palihapitiya (00:37:53): two different examples. In China, collectives and manifests as, like, basically, a top down, you know, form of governance. Okay? In in Israel, collectivism comes from a a a need for state level security. Right? I mean, I've traveled to Israel a lot. I've worked there. And it's crazy when you see how people cooperate together the minute you hear the missile alarms. Right? And so there there is a way for people to do cost benefit analysis in Israel because it's a matter of life or death, and they've been trained to do that. So either it's imposed on you like in China or people bottoms up can understand these trade offs like in Israel. We're in a very different place. where literally what we have are three things that are in conflict with each other, Jason. We have politics and the desire for power. We have the deconstruction of power by social media, and then we have the traditional media trying to stay relevant. That's a toxic thing that's spinning around and spinning around and spinning around, trying to allocate this very femoral thing called power and influence, and we don't know how it works anymore, and so we cannot get our shit together. Half the people care about vegan fucking milk The other half the people care I mean, it's it's we are in a alternate universe. David Sacks (00:39:13): As bad as we are, Europe and even Japan have done even worse because I I mean, we our our government was fairly efficient about the distribution of the vaccines. In Europe, they just completely botched it. Same thing in Japan. So We are not the worst on vaccination rates. Yes. It should be better. But Speaker 1 (00:39:30): -- Jason Calacanis (00:39:31): Well, we are the worst on capturing the opportunity, David. We have the opportunity to have everybody back in. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:38): America America is the most exceptional country in the world. It has been for hundreds of years, it should be for several 100 more. There is no excuse for this country to have fucked this up this badly. I've spent enough time as as you guys have in Europe and in Japan. It's understandable why those countries are in the positions they're in. it is not understandable why America's in the position. Jason Calacanis (00:40:00): So dumb. It's like it's like having a 20 point lead and you just with, like, 8 minutes to go and you just screw up and you lose the game. so stupid. Alright. Do we wanna move on to the Billionaire Space race? David Sacks (00:40:12): Yeah. I think that's positive news. Jason Calacanis (00:40:14): This company go what's it called? Virgin Galactic? There's a company called Virgin Galactic, and they take people to space. $200,000. Stock seems to be doing pretty well. Anybody have thoughts on Richard Branson getting to space? I don't know. Let's just randomly go to somebody. No. Congratulate in in all seriousness, congratulations. David Friedberg (00:40:35): I cried, Nat and I. Start the SEC transcript public statement. There you go. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:40): No. Matt Matt and I watched it together. Jason Calacanis (00:40:44): You cried? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:44): And it was emotional. It's emotional because you know I mean, being a little bit more on the inside, how hard they worked? I mean, we've all been there where we're all toiling in obscurity where there are moments where everybody thinks that what you're doing either is crazy or isn't gonna work or is gonna fail. And there's a moment where you just have to push through it. Right? And find people that believe in you. I think I came in very late to that, but I had the opportunity to find these incredible people believe in them help them give them capital, which was essentially oxygen. Right? That's oxygen for a company. And then to see them achieve it, it felt so special to be a part of it. So yeah. I mean, I was really emotional. and it was it was beautiful. So I I don't know. I think this is the beginning of the beginning. I tweeted this out, but, basically, if you think about And there's other stuff that we can't talk about with some other companies that we are all involved in David and I particularly. But here's the point, guys. between sending people and making us an interplanetary species by creating pervasive Internet access and by enabling us to safely and reliably transport people either point to point suborbitaly or basically into space we are completely reimagining how the human race can work. And I think that's incredible. And to be a part of that is really special. There was a lot of people who got very negative on Twitter I noticed. There was a lot David Friedberg (00:42:18): of people that said, oh, well, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:42:19): you know, no. Like, you know, maybe now we can deal with I don't know, child hunger or, you know, hey, why are all these billionaires doing this out of the other end? I took a step back and I thought, my gosh, a, people are there's a small virulent cohort of people that are incredibly negative and, b, doesn't even know what they're talking about because you're talking about issues of state responsibility and confusing it for what private citizens are doing to advance a set of technologies that I think have broad appeal. So Those are my thoughts. I mean, I was I I I watched every minute of it, and I thought it was incredible. David Sacks (00:42:54): Just to add to that, yeah, I wanna I wanna take the part that all the naysayers and and the negativity. I mean, Timoth is right. All the very online people immediately came out attacking this extraordinary accomplishment and active bravery by Branson. I mean, this is a billionaire. He doesn't need to be risking his life, launching himself into space. I mean, this is a courageous act, you know, he's putting his his his life where his mouth is. And you had all these very online people But you had one CNN commentator basically said this was bad for the environment. You had another one saying that calling him a tax cheat Then there was another whiner who said, what about all the starving children in the world? I mean, it just went on and on like this. And Mike Solana had a pretty funny tweet summing up the sort of the left's argument thusly. You said, number 1, This is their argument according to Solano. 1, money is evil. 2, therefore, people with money are evil. 3, therefore, things people with money care about evil. I mean, that is basically the level of sophistication. Jason Calacanis (00:44:00): Everybody stops the argument David Sacks (00:44:01): that's being made. It's it's that that's the argument that the left is making. Jason Calacanis (00:44:04): Everybody's a bond villain. David Sacks (00:44:06): Right. But here here's the problem is that, first of all, we do get tremendous benefits out of these innovators who are pushing the boundaries of science And Technology And Engineering. You know, Branson actually went on Stephen Colbert show and defended it. He said he said, listen. think they're not fully this is Branson. He said, I think they're not fully educated to what space does for Earth is connecting the billions of people who are not connected down here. He said every single spaceship that we've sent, putting satellites up there, monitoring different things around the world, like the degradation of rainforest, monitoring food distribution, even monitoring things like climate change. These things are essential for us back on earth, so we need more spaceships going up to space, not less. So, you know, they're really just kind of ignorant about the benefits of technology. And what do they wanna do with the money anyway? know, we've got all the yes. We do have all these problems on earth, but so many of our problems are not a problem of underfunding. We have tons of money. going to the problem of homelessness in California. It just keeps getting worse because we have the wrong approach. We have on education, we have very Speaker 1 (00:45:10): -- -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:11): wrong ideas. David Friedberg (00:45:11): We have the wrong organization. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:13): We have the wrong execution. Fix the operating details. It's not a money issue. David Sacks (00:45:18): Exactly. Take education in California, we have very high levels of per pupil spending, and our test scores keep going down. Why? Because we have unions controlling the schools. There's no Jason Calacanis (00:45:28): Don't worry, David. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:29): I'm getting rid of testing. Jason Calacanis (00:45:30): We we've eliminated a testing. We solved that problem. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:32): We spent more as a percentage of GDP on health care than any other Western country in the world Yet the life expectancy of white men, which is basically the top of the pyramid of health care, is now sub eighty years old. What is going on? If so if all of these if all of these negative naysayers could actually just get into the arena and try to do something. David Sacks (00:45:52): Right. Instead of whining, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:54): just stop whining. David Sacks (00:45:55): Instead of whining. Instead of whining. Speaker 1 (00:45:56): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:56): wine class. They have no ideas. They have no ideas. They have no executions. Jason Calacanis (00:46:01): They just have gripes. and no ability to execute, apparently. David Sacks (00:46:04): Yeah. Why don't they come up with new programs, actually test new programs at a hyper local level to see what works Okay. Speaker 6 (00:46:11): Can I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:46:12): tell you why? Can I can I tell you why? These sort of, like, leftist liners are not motivated to actually do the hard work. Meaning, even even even if they have an idea for education, The precondition to working on an education program or a healthcare program is they may need to spend 4 or 5 years in the bowels in obscurity just learning. David Sacks (00:46:36): Mhmm. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:46:37): Paying their dues, they don't wanna do that either because they grew up in a culture of kindergarten soccer. Everybody gets the gold star. Everybody gets to touch the ball. Everybody gets to be at the front of the line. and they're not willing to put in the work because the minute they realize how much actual work is demanded of progress They run away because they're scared, and the reason they're scared is because some were along the way somebody tricked them, that it was not actually about trying, it was actually about succeeding. And that is the biggest failure that we could do to people. Is all of a sudden tricking them to believe you have to have it work? Jason Calacanis (00:47:11): So they'd rather be hall monitors. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:13): They'd rather be -- -- critics. And failure is just as good because you're one step closer to succeeding somewhere along the way, unfortunately, they were not taught that incredible secret hiding in plain sight. Jason Calacanis (00:47:25): Friedberg, what do you think of the space race and the hall monitor, wine, or class? David Friedberg (00:47:28): If you guys look, I was gonna send these statistics earlier. But if you look at the amount of venture capital money that's gone into into private space companies, space technology companies. I think it was a few $100,000,000, call it 3 to $400,000,000 pretty consistently from 2011 through 2014 pretty flat. And then in 2015, I think this is when SpaceX started to kind of create a lot of momentum and hype that private companies can actually build businesses in kind of call it the space industry, the number jumped to 3,000,000,000 a year, and then it was a little over 3 and a half 1000000000 in 16, and then it jumped almost 5,000,000,000 in 17. It was a little bit down in 18. 2020, it's climbed to almost 10,000,000,000. And in q 1 of this year, I think we're at 2,000,000,000. venture capital money going into private space companies. So there's clearly a great deal of momentum in this industry the question is always, what's the market at the end? And so if you break out how do these companies make money, one is to provide services to governments, you know, launch services and and taking people to to the space station and what have you in SpaceX has obviously built a tremendous business in that. There there has been obviously a lot of interest in tourism, and I think it's you know, we're seeing this first breakthrough with with Virgin Galactic. we're gonna find out over the next couple of years, is there a tourism market? Historically, there's been interest in a market for a visual satellites. But, you know, if you look at some of the financials of companies like Planet Labs, they get a few acquisitions in space imaging. And the revenue hasn't really taken off there. And then mining was always this other question, is can we go out and mine, you know, rare minerals from space and that one is just know, if you do the math on it, it's so far away. It's impossible to kinda model. So I think over the next and and then finally, it's communications. And communications cheaper to run on Earth if you're in cities versus, you know, the the the SpaceX model is to reach rural rural areas that it's gonna be more affordable to do this through space. And so, you know, there's there's obviously a ton of momentum and a ton of interest in in private companies getting to space everyone right now, it seems, is trying to figure out what's the market. David Friedberg (00:49:42): Right? What's the how big is the market? How big is the business? And and, you know, how quickly can you actually see that capital turn around into real revenue? So, you know, there's this kind of market question that I think is still outstanding. In terms of, you know, the opportunity If you go back to, like, the 15th century, I think something like 60 to 70% of ships maritime travel, you know, got into shipwrecks. You know, the and, you know, that's around when, you know, we sailed across the Atlanta or the Spanish sailed across the Atlantic are funded? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:50:16): No. Or they or they disappeared. Damn. David Friedberg (00:50:17): Or they disappear? I mean, they basically crashed and didn't work. Jason Calacanis (00:50:19): It was a one way trip. sometimes to the bottom of the ocean. David Friedberg (00:50:23): If you were sitting in Spain in 1450 and someone said, hey. These ships It's gonna be a great business. We're gonna build lots of ships, and we're gonna go out. Maybe we'll get trade routes going. Maybe we'll discover new land. Maybe we'll make money. Maybe we'll take people on trips on these ships. you would be like, this is crazy. Half the people are dying. There's no market on the other side. So, you know, we are in Chamath Palihapitiya (00:50:45): that country. You would have been totally wrong. David Friedberg (00:50:47): Yeah. And you are in that 15th century moment right now with the space industry. Now would anyone in the space would anyone in the ship business in the 15th century have been able to predict carnival cruise lines or been able to predict evergreen shifts taking stuff from China to America with these huge shipping crates, would anyone have been able to predict, you know, going down to the bottom of the Atlantic I mean, like, all of the technology and the entire industry that kind of came out of that, you know, that that that set of pioneering activity in the 15th century transform the planet, transform the economy, transform humanity. And, you know, it's very it's very hard it's very hard to sit here today and say, hey. I know where space is go where the space industry is going. I know what's gonna be possible, but I can tell you that if history is any predictor of the future, you know, this pioneering work that's going on, which is burning tons of money and and everyone's kinda questioning whether those businesses here, it could transform our species once again. So, yeah, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:51:49): David, your 15th century shipping example is so beautiful. Three things that came out of that which I think we all value, Speaker 1 (00:51:59): 1, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:51:59): insurance, Speaker 1 (00:52:02): 2, Jason Calacanis (00:52:02): tort law, and carry. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:52:04): Exactly. and 3 was basically how they did risk management so that, you know, each ship would take a little piece of everybody else's cargo so that some of the cargo would always David Friedberg (00:52:13): get to. Marketplace as emerge Lloyds of London came across. Yeah. Lloyds of London emerged because of the the maritime insurance that was required, and the and almost all PNC insurance can trace its roots back to maritime insurance during that that era. Well And so so these these ancillary industries that emerged were like surprising. Right? Jason Calacanis (00:52:30): It's almost business models emerge because you had to figure out how you do the arbitrage here. And carry is the perfect example. People don't understand the venture capital carry. We get 20 percent of the profits was designed so that people with ships, the captain would get to say we get 20% of whatever makes it there. Now you're aligned. Whatever makes it there, you get 20% of okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna go through that storm and I'm gonna try to get it there. And we don't there's so many unknowns. But just looking at the one thing, you know, STARLINK I was doing a little research today about Internet penetration. We've got, you know, close to 5 billion people on the Internet now. But a very small number of them are on broadband. It's like 20%, 30%, somewhere in that number. It's it's hard to get an exact number there. But if you think about what's gonna happen to humanity, We're talking about billions of people who did not have access to broadband. And they are going to go from not having you know, if you if you think about what we went through in the west when the Internet first came out and we got our first Braun bag connections, you know, defined as like DSL or whatever. We had libraries. We had books. We had colleges. We had stores everywhere. Barnes And Noble. So the Internet was unbelievably transformative. but we were in a modern society. Now you go to the developing world, and they're gonna go from, you know, not even having running water in some cases in their homes or electricity, or, you know, variable to having broadband, and they're gonna have access to YouTube circa Speaker 1 (00:53:53): 2022, 2023. Jason Calacanis (00:53:55): They're gonna have access to you know, MIT courseware or brilliant.org and all of this information and shopping, we're gonna take a billion or two billion people and give them broad band instantly within a decade? This is gonna change the the face of the planet. I think that that's the revolution And and it's not just Starlink doing it. There's, like, 3 competitors to Starlink. Obviously, Starlink's got the biggest lead. David Friedberg (00:54:19): Yeah. Before SpaceX doing this and and and there were others. There was a company called 03b. It was a stood for other 3,000,000,000, and they had raised a ton of money to do this. I just I I by the way, I just wanna speak to, like, a trend that we've seen and and also speak to the the quality of Elon's leadership. So many companies have tried this. Google talked about it for years, which is how you connect -- Yeah. Well, Project Loon was a follow on to what we talked about early on at Google. which was putting up satellites. And ultimately, Google had a satellite program that was killed in favor of buying a company called Skybox and Skybox was this coastal venture is back startup that was trying to make a smaller scale startup. And if you guys will remember around the early 20 tens There were a bunch of startups that emerged that were all about building small scale satellites that could go up into low earth orbit. and do things like imaging and communications. And a bunch of these companies were banking on the fact that the cost per kilogram to get your payload into space was declining pretty precipitously. So they were like, let's make super cheap commodity, you know, space imaging or space communication boxes, put them in space, And after a couple of years, they'll fall out of or orbit and burn up, but it doesn't matter. If we can get enough use out of them and they cost so little to put into space and they cost so little to make, let's put hundreds of them up. So there's a company called Planet Labs, that that does this that's I think going public via spec now. They again, they they've been challenged with building the business in imaging, but there was Google bought a company for, I think, half a $1,000,000,000 called Skybox trying to do this, which it was like imaging slash comms, and they had a bigger refrigerator sized box that they were trying to put up. ultimately, Google Google spun that out to to Planet Labs, and the whole thing kind of, you know, became imaging. But I I I just wanna highlight that this has been a big trend for a while. And it speaks to the quality of Elon in his leadership because the fact that this guy did what 20 other, 30 other people have tried companies have tried to do for the past decade or so. David Friedberg (00:56:14): And he said, you know what? Instead of just providing the the infrastructure to get all these devices into space, we're just gonna build the actual devices, get this thing up, and just go crazy with it and put our capital into it. And it's really impressive to see because it's such a no brainer, and people have been talking about this this opportunity for over a decade. and these guys just have absolutely rushed the field, and they could build an incredible business out of this you know? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:56:37): The 2 most important companies in satellite communications are Starlink and Swarm. And Swarm was a company that I seeded and sacks to the series a. And the if you talk to the founders of that company, you know, they'll they'll give you this use case in I think it was in 2 2014. Do you guys remember there was a, like, a Malaysian Airlines flight that just disappeared? Jason Calacanis (00:56:57): Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:56:58): Disappeared. Speaker 1 (00:56:59): 370. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:57:00): Yeah. Malaysian Airlines flight 370, and it was like Speaker 1 (00:57:03): 230 240 Chamath Palihapitiya (00:57:05): people that passed away. And the the the most, you know, indelible question that I remember from this was, we we couldn't track it. and not to myself, how is that even possible? How do you how do you lose how do you lose a flight in the middle of the earth? It's not possible. It turns out it is because our Internet coverage is so sad that it only covers small areas. And it it it made obvious that, like, you know, we should live in a world where there is absolutely pervasive Internet access everywhere. Every single little shred inch of the world should be covered. And saturated, that should never happen. You know, the people should be able to have closure. They should be able to go and get that plain, recover the bodies, give them proper funeral. These are simple things, but they're human things that we should be doing as human beings. Right? Speaker 5 (00:57:55): Well, Jason Calacanis (00:57:55): and just think about the IoT. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:57:57): enables this. And the idea that we can't do that is shocking. And so I I agree with you, Phoebe. We Elon's incredible, and I think that within the next 5 years, we'll probably pervasive Internet access everywhere in the earth, and that's that's transformational. You know, the the 2nd most valuable private company in space is also a company that, you know, I invested in led the series a called Relativity Space. And their idea which I think will help everybody that wants to go to Mars and other places is why don't we just three d print the rockets? and why don't we 3 d print the engines? And why don't we make that functionally useful because it it basically takes the cost of a rocket and divides it by 10. And these printers are small enough where, you know, you can actually send them to and dismantle them and take them with you to Mars. and set them up there, and all of a sudden, you can print the parts that you need to get back to Earth as an example. So I think that additive manufacturing has an enormous upside here in space. And I think that that's another area that's going to be really, really Speaker 1 (00:59:06): -- Jason Calacanis (00:59:06): Anybody who read Andy Weir Hail Marriott, the the guy who did the Martian. He's a science fiction author. It's it's really great because you don't actually know what you're gonna find out there. I think that's one of the things that you know, to to Friedberg point, what what do we find out there? What if we find a compound out there that, like, plutonium has some attributes that we could leverage in very small amounts to create unlimited energy or unlimited prosperity in some ways. There there are there are things that can exist that we have not been exposed to And, of course, the probability is there are many things that we have yet to be exposed to. Speaker 1 (00:59:40): 100%. David Friedberg (00:59:40): Yeah. Look. I don't subscribe to to to that thesis. I'll I'll tell you I'll tell you why. And and this maybe also speaks a little bit to some of the counterpoints against the space industry getting the attention and resourcing it has relative to, call it, other places to allocate capital and human resourcing. And that is, like, the the tools that we have in science And Engineering today as a species continues to expand at at kind of a geometric pace. our ability to convert any molecule into any other molecule is basically fulfilled now. It's a function at this point of how much energy and time it takes to do that work. So almost all industry, the function of industry is to convert molecules from one form to another. And we have tools ranging from hardware engineering, mechanical engineering, and more recently, in the early 20th century, chemical engineering, and in the 21st century, biochemical Engineering. Those tools are allowing us to invent, discover, and convert molecules and and even in some cases, kind of elemental forms that into nearly anything else we wanna produce. And the technology is accelerating in such a way the set of technologies compound that if you think about a 100 years from now, 200 years from now, 100 years from now, the human species theoretically for very minimal time and very minimal energy should be able to have something that looks akin today to the Star Trek replicare. You basically type into a device what you'd like to make, and it makes it for you in a few minutes. And you could just like mister Fusion and back to the future queue, you could put any input you want into the thing. You could throw in antas and cans and whatever, and out comes this thing you wanna make. So as the human species evolved towards that capability, and we don't need to get into the details. That's just like the general trend line. It becomes less relevant that we need to go get other molecules or go get other things from extra planetary sources. The planet Earth has, you know, the order of 10 to the 23rd atoms. You know, 2 thirds of the the surface is water. David Friedberg (01:01:43): There is so much that is, like, unexplored and untapped from a resource perspective within this this spaceship that we're already on that the argument would be made that our technology is allowing us to effectively recreate all of our fantastic dreams right here where we live today. And first thing we're gonna have to do is fix this planet and fix the ecosystems that that that are kind of at risk. But as we progress and as these technologies progress, we can do these extraordinary things that we don't necessarily need to rely on extra planetary travel and colonization in order to achieve those objectives. So so that that that's that's the that's the optimistic counterargument. Jason Calacanis (01:02:17): Yeah. But we keep finding things like these molecules and Titan's atmosphere, etcetera. that we can't explain. And we're finding those are telescopes. Let alone we get out there. I mean, we might be able to create them. Sure. David Friedberg (01:02:30): Yeah. I Jason Calacanis (01:02:30): But we're gonna discover them in other places. We we they may be beyond our human comprehension that these things could even exist, David. David Friedberg (01:02:37): There are interesting things we're seeing there for sure. And I think You know, there there's a I I think I mentioned this book before. It's so esoteric and difficult, but it's called every life is on fire by this guy named Jeremy England. and he highlights how all of evolution is effectively predicted by statistical physics. And the energy bat and the molecules within a system create a structure of molecules that you wouldn't see except for that condition, meaning that over time, the complexity of that system evolves to create an equilibrium with the energy that it's that it's covered in. So What we see on planet Earth he argues is organic molecules in what we call life, which are these molecules that are really good at copying themselves to absorb energy and dissipate energy. So the molecules and the energy state of, you know, Titan is different than what we see at Earth. So the way the molecules have evolved there are so different than what we've seen on earth. And you could see these incredible concept of what we we wouldn't call life today, but really could be defined as life there And so there's certainly a lot to learn and a lot to explore. It doesn't mean that we're limited in terms of our ability to kinda realize those things here on planet Earth. But you're you're absolutely right. Like, x exploration is the core of being a human. Right? Jason Calacanis (01:03:52): And for people who don't know, Titan is one of the it's the largest moon of Saturn, and it's got its own really weird dense atmosphere. That's icy and slushy, and we don't even we we can't even comprehend half the stuff going on there yet. David Friedberg (01:04:07): Would any of you guys take the Richard Branson trip? Would you do the, you know, like, next week or or to your I guess, at what point would you be comfortable taking it to them? I'm sure you've taken you're you're signing up. Jason Calacanis (01:04:17): I can answer for Saks. The answer is no. Speaker 1 (01:04:20): 600 Chamath Palihapitiya (01:04:21): and 600 and something. Jason Calacanis (01:04:22): So How many flights more would you wanna see? You would wanna do 10 more flights, 20 more flights? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:04:28): No. I feel I feel really confident that we know what we're doing. The this flight was so critical because it was about figuring out what it was like to have passengers in the back and how they'd all behave when you had multiple folks. And I think once that readout is done and Richard apparently took a bunch of notes. So, you know, we'll we'll be starting commercial ops, I think, you know, the next 2 or 3 quarters. So -- Wow. Jason Calacanis (01:04:52): Yeah. I mean -- -- when you have -- Probably exact. David Sacks (01:04:55): Well, I mean, if if I had a $500,000,000 super yacht like Jeff Bezos, that's where I'd be hanging out. I don't think I'd be blasting. Speaker 5 (01:05:02): I would be blasting us David Sacks (01:05:04): up into space But, I mean, look, more power to them. I mean, they got you know, they certainly have got -- -- both. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:05:12): He's doing both. David Friedberg (01:05:12): Yeah. Jake, how would you do it? Jason Calacanis (01:05:15): I you know, I my my theory is with kids, I kind of think differently about it. But if I was over 70 like Branson, certainly I would do it. Yeah. I I would have to have that conversation with my spouse and my kids and say, you know, hey, this opportunity exists. they've done, let's call it, a 100 flights somewhere in that neighborhood. I would I think I would feel pretty comfortable doing it, but I I would wanna check-in with my my family and kids and see if we were all in sync on taking that lever. I I stopped riding motorcycles as an example. I think that flying in space tourism in the next year or 2 will be safer than riding a motorcycle. And then eventually, it'll be safer than you know, driving a car or something. It's it's quite -- Yeah. -- possible. David Friedberg (01:05:57): I was I was watching a space show with my daughter. She's three years old on the couch the other day. And then she she was like, oh, space. It looks so fun. And I'm like, make you know, I said, do you wanna go to space? And she said she looked back at me, and she said, I wanna go to space with you. it made me cry. It was the first time I'd ever thought, like, man I. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:14): First time you'd ever cried? David Friedberg (01:06:15): First time I'd ever cried. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:17): We just uploaded that Jason Calacanis (01:06:18): to his firmware. Yeah. Christ. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:19): But I David Friedberg (01:06:19): I was like Speaker 1 (01:06:20): -- Jason Calacanis (01:06:20): What are these water particles on my chin? But I had I had, like, David Friedberg (01:06:25): no desire, I would say, before she said that to go to space, but it was a Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:29): Can I can I can I give you Speaker 5 (01:06:30): an idea? Speaker 1 (01:06:30): -- David Friedberg (01:06:30): poignant moment that, like, man, this, like, moment of, like, inspiration of, like, going to space is something that, like, I think is gonna inspire you know, a generation. And and I told my daughter, I said, you know, you are gonna go to space. I I hope I could be there with you. But yeah. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:45): Can I give you an idea? two different ideas, but they're roughly related when each of your kids turn Speaker 1 (01:06:51): 18, Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:53): buy them a ticket to space so that they become an astronaut. which I think is, like, a beautiful kind of an idea where, like, you know, what an incredible present to give somebody as they mature into aged. You know, if you if you read if you if you basically have heard all these astronauts have said, you know, the the overview effect, like, when you're above the Earth looking down, it has this completely transformational effect on your outlook on life and the planet. And so, you know, to the extent that that's a quantifiable thing to give that to your child seems like an enormous gift or or when everybody's of age or whatever where all of you guys go as a family so that the whole cabin is your family, that would be really cool too. Either of those ideas, I will do one of those 2. Hold Speaker 1 (01:07:35): on a second, Shamont. Jason Calacanis (01:07:36): There were four people. Correct? On this flight, if I remember correctly? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:39): There's 4 passengers. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:07:40): k. Wait a second. There are four Basties. How are you not setting up a flight for the 100th episode of all in to be on Virgin Galactic? can you imagine watching David cry and be so scared? David Sacks (01:07:54): I mean -- I Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:54): can pretty much guarantee you guys -- -- seconds, obviously. You guys have to tickets, but I can pretty much guarantee you that if the 3 of you decided to buy tickets, I I'm pretty sure I can organize that we all go on the same flight. Jason Calacanis (01:08:06): That would be ratings, Ned's about rating. That's yeah. David Sacks (01:08:10): That's all I need. That's all I need is to be entombed with you guys Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:14): for eternity. Jason Calacanis (01:08:17): You know you want it. You know you want it. David Friedberg (01:08:20): Oh. Hey, Chamath, can you address the Von Carmen line controversy around, you know, what's the right point to be in space because it came up a lot this week in the news. I didn't wanna kinda bring Jason Calacanis (01:08:30): it up. -- by one person. Well, no. No. David Friedberg (01:08:32): There was people about on the news and stuff? Like, maybe you could just Speaker 1 (01:08:34): shit for everyone. -- Jason Calacanis (01:08:35): blue origin being lame. Honestly, that's so petty by pesos. David Friedberg (01:08:39): So share maybe just share what happened and kinda you know, the point of view on this, be awesome. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:44): But, basically, the question is what defines space? Right? So if you if you just, like, start from the bottom from ground level. Right? You have the troposphere. Right? So you have, like, the first kind of, like, Speaker 1 (01:08:59): 10, 20 Chamath Palihapitiya (01:09:01): kilometers or so. Right? Then you have the stratosphere. Right? That's where, like, a lot of, like, weather balloon activity happens. That's at 50 kilometers. Then you have the Mesosphere. Right? That's where you'll see things like meteors and stuff. Then you get to basically the in line, which is around, I don't know, a 100 kilometers or so. There are a bunch of countries that either have no opinion or point to this kind of group to define what the beginning of space is. and they define that at about a 100 clicks, which is I I wanna say Speaker 1 (01:09:33): 62 Chamath Palihapitiya (01:09:36): miles. Okay? Then there's the United States and the DOD and NASA, etcetera. and we define it at a different level, fifty odd miles. And so in the United States, you need to pass the US regulatory body's definition of what the threshold of space is to be considered an astronaut. There is other countries that would then point to a different line, the carbon line has the line. I think the point is it's all much ado about nothing. I think in the end, I think Virgin stated that they went to 52a half or 53a half, you know, things are iterative, so over time you'll folks will get higher and higher. But the point is Okay. And what? You basically go into space. You get to see the planet. You get to feel microgravity. You know, you get the benefit of the overview effect. Whether you're at 52 and a half, I'm guessing you'll get the same effect at 58 or 60 or 61. and then you come back to Earth. So I thought it was kind of a little cheap and unnecessary. because there's David Friedberg (01:10:50): not there's there's nothing experience wise, that changes. Right? I mean, like, the Speaker 1 (01:10:54): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:54): Not my understanding. Jason Calacanis (01:10:55): Yeah. Blue Origin did a tweet. From the beginning, New Shepard was designed to fly above the Carmen line. So none of our astronauts would have an asterisk next to their name. For 96% of the world's population space begins a 100 Kilometers up in the interest of blah blah blah. It's just like, why would they do that the days before the Richard Branson goes up? It's just totally classless. It shows that Bezos has a competitive streak, which is just not graceful, I would say. And I think there's a little bit of bitterness there. And then you look at Elon, What did Elon do? He went Speaker 1 (01:11:29): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:11:29): She's so classy. He went -- She's so classy. Speaker 1 (01:11:31): -- Jason Calacanis (01:11:31): took a picture with Branson, and he went to support him and wrote a a congratulatory tweet. Elon does not feel he's in competition, but for some reason, Bezos you know Bezos had to, like, draft and approve this specific tweet from Blue Origin. And I just thought it was classless and just stupid, Jeff, really. Made you look so bad. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:11:51): Elon Elon was so fabulous. I mean, it just shows you, like, what a class act he is and what he cares about, which is like he cares about advancing humans and our ability to do things that are incredible and inspiring. And when other people do it, he's not zero sum about it. as you said, Jason, he was there. He was supportive. It it it was just lovely to see. David Sacks (01:12:15): I think Bezos is still stung for when Elon said he couldn't get it up meaning -- Yeah. Speaker 1 (01:12:20): -- David Sacks (01:12:20): couldn't get his couldn't get his rocket into space. So Speaker 1 (01:12:22): -- David Friedberg (01:12:22): So I don't know if that was that was too classy of Elon. Well, Jason Calacanis (01:12:27): it was David Sacks (01:12:27): funny. It David Friedberg (01:12:28): was funny. David Sacks (01:12:29): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:12:29): I don't know if you guys have seen Jeff's Rocket. It's kinda small. So Rocket is I mean, David Sacks (01:12:37): Jason, now you're doing it. Jason Calacanis (01:12:38): Got a tiny rocket. David Sacks (01:12:40): I'm just joking. Jason Calacanis (01:12:41): Just so we put a pin in it. Melvin Capital, the people who went to more with the Redditrators or vice versa, lost Speaker 1 (01:12:49): $5,000,000,000? David Sacks (01:12:50): Couldn't happen to a nicer group of people. Jason Calacanis (01:12:53): I mean, they're down 46% which is just shocking in and of itself in this kinda upmarket. But then to actually quantify it, they lost Speaker 1 (01:13:01): 5 $1,000,000,000 Jason Calacanis (01:13:04): fighting a bunch of self proclaimed ours. I wouldn't say the work because I don't wanna get canceled, but they call themselves ours on on Reddit. David Sacks (01:13:14): Redditers. Redditers. Jason Calacanis (01:13:15): They cost them Speaker 1 (01:13:16): 5,000,000,000 Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:17): Jason, you can say it. They're you're not calling them that. They call themselves that. Jason Calacanis (01:13:21): They call themselves that. Yes. Alright. Listen. Love you besties. facts, we're glad that you're safe and you're healthy. David Sacks (01:13:29): No thanks to you. No thanks to you. Jason Calacanis (01:13:31): I didn't put any jokes in there. I have so many jokes. I'm gonna save them. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:35): I mean, honestly, my my thought on your recovery is no comment. Jason Calacanis (01:13:41): Just jealous, you're gonna lose another 5 freaking pounds because of Speaker 1 (01:13:44): -- David Sacks (01:13:44): Oh, yeah. I'm down to 178, by the way. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:46): Come on. Stop. Are you -- Yeah. Speaker 1 (01:13:47): -- Jason Calacanis (01:13:48): manorexic. I can't even break one. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:50): When when when are you gonna stop? David Friedberg (01:13:51): Was there a bet or no? Jason Calacanis (01:13:52): No bad. I -- No bad. -- lose that bet. That'd be like me playing Saxx and chess. It's just like Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:57): Jason, what do you what Jason Calacanis (01:13:58): do you tip in Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:59): the scales at right now? Speaker 1 (01:14:00): 190. 1. 190, Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:02): and you're about to come to Italy. And, basically, you're gonna gain £15 for sure. Jason Calacanis (01:14:06): No. I'm doing one meal a day. One meal a day. That's it. One meal a day. That's it. I'm eating one meal a day. How am I gonna turn Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:15): down the food? But what if you eat for 3 hours in that one meal? Jason Calacanis (01:14:18): I just I try everything. I'll just try, and then I have discipline now just like I stopped using Twitter. I'm stopping Twitter. David Sacks (01:14:23): Can I tell one funny story about Jake Allen, talking about discipline? Okay. So we were there in Italy. was this, Jake? A few years ago, whatever? This is Jason Calacanis (01:14:32): a long time ago. Is this when we were in Venice? David Sacks (01:14:34): Yeah. You were you were with Jade, and I was with with Jack. It was a great store. Speaker 5 (01:14:38): And we David Sacks (01:14:38): went to some ice cream place. Right? And so we all had we all had these, like, ice cream Jato with, like, 2 scoops or whatever on there. So Jason finishes his in, like, 5 seconds, and he's like, this disappeared. And then he walks up to Jacqueline and just like, goes like like that. And And in one fell swoop, he ate the the i the gelato off her ice cream cone. Jason Calacanis (01:15:02): That's not true. David Sacks (01:15:02): It was like it was like a bulldog. It was, like, It was like a bulldog just eating your ice cream. Jason Calacanis (01:15:08): But how good was that fish that we got? Remember that restaurant I found? Yeah. David Sacks (01:15:11): That weird. The door. Jason Calacanis (01:15:12): The rod. I mean, we still talk about that place. That was -- Yeah. David Sacks (01:15:15): That was, like, one of the best meals you ever had. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:16): I've been having a gelato guys every day. Every day. Jason Calacanis (01:15:20): but they're so small. That's what I love about the Italian people. It's a it's a little it's a such a cute little Speaker 1 (01:15:24): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:24): It doesn't feel like there's, like, a lot of preservatives and stuff in there. Jason Calacanis (01:15:27): It's just like butter and sugar, heavy cream. Whatever it is, it's so good. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:32): It's so good. Jason Calacanis (01:15:33): It's so good. How the tomatoes right now? I can't wait to see some tomatoes. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:36): Incredible. I mean, I eat them, I bathe them, I rub them on Jason Calacanis (01:15:40): my face. What about the mutts? You got the mutts. How's the burrata in the mutts? I can't believe it. David Sacks (01:15:45): He's gonna gain Speaker 1 (01:15:46): £15. David Sacks (01:15:47): I'm sure 100%. Let's get Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:48): it right. David Sacks (01:15:49): Look at it. Speaker 1 (01:15:50): 100%. Jason Calacanis (01:15:51): We should do away in when we get there and away in at the end. That would be the bet. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:55): I don't know how you're gonna turn down this food. I don't know how you're gonna say no to the pasta. You'll have pasta at lunch, pasta dinner. You're just gonna you're gonna go crazy. Speaker 1 (01:16:02): I'm gonna just have 2 bites of everything. 2 bites of 6 different pastas, Jason Calacanis (01:16:07): and I'll be fine. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:08): By the way, by the way, the the The the the biggest the best Speaker 5 (01:16:12): kept secret is the Italian the David Friedberg (01:16:12): quality of Italian white wine is outrageous. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:15): Really? It's outrageous. Jason Calacanis (01:16:21): We should play some cards and drink some wine. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:23): I think we're gonna play. No. For a Jason Calacanis (01:16:24): couple of beers. David Sacks (01:16:25): How many how many calories are in the white wine, Chamath? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:29): calories? I I I mean, I have no idea. But, you know, look, the thing in the summertime here is you end up walking. So I end up walking a lot or bicycling a little bit, blah blah blah. At the end of the day, like, you're burning through everything. Jason Calacanis (01:16:40): I gotta say, this ebike I got, I got a Rad Powerbike. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:43): No. No. No. The the whole point is to not have a motor that hours that you fucking lazy bastard. Jason Calacanis (01:16:47): No. No. You what you don't understand is because you have the motor in it jam off, you ride your bike normal, but then, like, say you do have dinner or something like that or you wanna go to dinner 10 miles away or 15 miles away, you might not take your bike. It's too long of a ride. With these electric bikes, instead of going ten miles on the way there, it takes your 10 mile ride and just puts you at 25, but you're still burning the same number of calories. It's like augmenting. I really think that electric bikes are gonna change cities, like, in a major way. They're already starting to in Europe and in China. But alright, everybody. We'll see you next time on the all in podcast. Love you, Saxx. David Sacks (01:17:19): Back at you. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:17:21): Sachs, I hope I hope you get better. Jason Calacanis (01:17:23): Feel better. Thank David Sacks (01:17:23): you. Thanks, guys. Yeah. I'm better. I'm ready better. Don't worry Speaker 5 (01:17:27): about it. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:17:28): And, Friedberg, you have nothing to say? Computer David Friedberg (01:17:31): It did it did nice to see the 3 of you. Jason Calacanis (01:17:33): It was nice to check off the box for my social interactions for the week. David Friedberg (01:17:38): I will now go back. Speaker 1 (01:17:39): -- Jason Calacanis (01:17:39): done 75 minutes of social interaction powering down in Speaker 1 (01:17:43): 3 -- 21. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:17:45): Mama, mama, mama, We'll Speaker 1 (01:17:46): see you next time. Bye bye. Speaker 5 (01:17:49): We'll let your winners ride. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:17:52): Rainman, David Saffens. Speaker 6 (01:17:57): We open source it to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with it. Jason Calacanis (01:18:04): besties are Speaker 5 (01:18:05): golf. That's Jason Calacanis (01:18:05): a funny dog thinking about a Speaker 6 (01:18:14): driveway sex. Speaker 5 (01:18:17): Oh, man. Am I Chamath Palihapitiya (01:18:18): out of the Azure media outlets? We should Speaker 6 (01:18:20): all just get a room and just have a big huge orphan because their office are useless. It's like this, like, sexual tension that they just need to release somehow. Jason Calacanis (01:18:28): When you're the VP, What? Fire of David Sacks (01:18:31): the earthy. Jason Calacanis (01:18:32): What? What? Where did you get Murkey's arm back?