媒体错位与叙事主导权：对话德雷蒙德·格林

Speaker 1 (00:00:00): Where'd you be? How would you be? Where'd you be? Jason Calacanis (00:00:05): Fermi, I am recording testing. Test thing while recording -- Uh-huh. -- and here we Speaker 1 (00:00:12): -- A bad joke. The -- Jason Calacanis (00:00:14): Here we go. In Speaker 1 (00:00:15): 3, 2. Draymond Green (00:00:18): The LET Your Winter Pride. Jason Calacanis (00:00:21): Rainman, David Saffens. Draymond Green (00:00:25): And it said open source it Speaker 4 (00:00:27): to fans and make discoveries. Jason Calacanis (00:00:34): Hey, everybody. It's the all in podcast, wet your big young spielberg coming at you on a Friday morning afternoon draft time, the number 11 podcast in the world. It's the all in podcast with the Queen of Kenwa, David Friedberg, rain man himself with his hot new track from Young Friedberg, I am the rain man. David Sacks, and of course wedding his beak, the absolute dictator wetting his beak with his merch. Merch game is strong, Chamath, Polly, Papa. Tia, how's everybody doing on the backs of us becoming? the number 11 podcast in the world. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:20): Really good. Really wow. Look at that enthusiasm. Really great. No. I think we had an intermittent Saksipu is not apparently, you know, with with all these with all his week beak wedding, he hasn't had time to pay the Internet bill. David Sacks (00:01:34): Yeah. Guys, I'm back. Jason Calacanis (00:01:35): You can go ahead and upgrade your DSL from from 56 kilobits. I think you can afford it. Okay? David Friedberg (00:01:41): He's hit his bandwidth limit because he was watching himself on Tucker over and over again this morning. I'm sorry. Speaker 8 (00:01:46): I'm sorry. -- ran out of Internet. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:48): I do I do need to say this that yesterday, we do have firsthand evidence that David Sachs after appearing on Tucker Carlson. then spent the next hour watching himself appear on Tucker Carlson. Literally got up from the poker table Speaker 1 (00:02:01): -- Speaker 8 (00:02:02): My gosh. Speaker 1 (00:02:02): -- Jason Calacanis (00:02:02): refused to play poker with his besties, because he had to watch himself on -- -- less than six times on Tucker. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:09): Oh my gosh. Speaker 8 (00:02:09): So it must have been it must David Friedberg (00:02:10): have been watched his time. 30 times. No no headphones. Just listening to the iPhone, looking at it. Jason Calacanis (00:02:16): No. This is -- -- enough to his ear just so he doesn't miss a word, optimizing his performance. What was it like to go on Fox News. Would this a dream for you, Saxx? Is this a is this a bucket list? David Sacks (00:02:26): See, Jason, this is why you're such a scumbag because I I asked you guys to say, hey. Like, Tucker shows invited me on. Should I go? You know? And and and you guys are like, yeah. Yeah. It'll be great for ratings for the pod. You should definitely do it. And then after I do it, the first thing you guys say when I walk in the room is, oh my god. You went on Tucker? How right wing are you? Speaker 9 (00:02:50): Do you realize that all your deal flow just got canceled? David Sacks (00:02:53): Yep. Yep. I'm gonna eat all your deals now. Speaker 10 (00:02:55): By the Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:56): way, that was the fun as part, Jason had premeditated -- Totally. Speaker 1 (00:03:00): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:03:00): basically getting you to appear on Tucker so as them to impugn you and destroy you. Yeah. David Sacks (00:03:05): Take out goes, oh, I'm gonna get all your deals now. Yum! Yum! David Friedberg (00:03:10): Yeah. All is fair Speaker 8 (00:03:11): when it comes Chamath Palihapitiya (00:03:12): to early stage deal flow. Speaker 9 (00:03:13): And then he starts tweeting, you know, he's, like, the first one to show a photo of me split screen with Tucker and Speaker 8 (00:03:19): I'm sure Speaker 9 (00:03:19): I was creating. Jason Calacanis (00:03:21): I was I was literally watching it and looking at -- -- for the great takedown. Actually, you did in all seriousness, you did great. I think it was worth doing. And he framed it as I don't know if people saw it. You can look up Tucker Carlson, Besty, David Sachs. It'll come up number 1. And He said you were essentially taking a very liberal classic liberal point of view. So he basically set the stage for you to not be a far right wing nut case, you were actually defending liberal principles of people should have the ability to have freedom of speech. Why don't you talk about what it was like? David Sacks (00:03:58): Yeah. I mean, so so you're right. I mean, he made the the connection and the comparison to Net Hentoff, who was, like, the famous ACLU free speech lawyer. And And I really appreciate that because I do very much see myself in that mold of of somebody like Hentoff. He wrote a book called FreeSpeech for me, but not for the sort of famous line. Because everybody wants free speech for themselves and their allies, but they wanna deny it to people they disagree with. And, you know, they never seem to realize that censorship is a problem until it gets turned against them. And so, you know, the point I made about the these Reddit kids who are censored is that look. This this was not they they were some Rauci speech in their message board. We all know that, but it was no different than any trading floor or trading pit or or boiler room on Wall Street. Right? It's the same kind of language. Yet, they were taken down and censored by Discord for hate speech. why? Because they became very threatening to, you know, powerful insiders. And, you know, but how many of those those Reddit kids sought as a problem when, you know, Trump or his supporters got or or Parler got d platformed a few weeks ago. they could never have imagined that that same censorship principle could ever get turned against them. And and so we all have a blind spot to towards censorship when we line the results. And, you know, Pentoff's point is always look. It's not about the results. It's about who are you giving the power to to to sensor to. And that's what you have to be really careful of. Jason Calacanis (00:05:29): In relation to that, how delightful has it been to not have Trump on Twitter putting aside, you know, censorship even for you as a Republican conservative But liberal, socially, I will note your very liberal socially. Your live and let live. Pro LBgtQ, of course. And but to not have Trump on Twitter has been all that cognitive space has come back. We get it all back. Speaker 4 (00:05:58): Simple about Speaker 9 (00:05:59): that. Right? David Sacks (00:05:59): Silence is is is bliss. Speaker 8 (00:06:02): Learning Christmas. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:03): What did you guys think about what is her name, Marjorie, blahblahblah, green? Who just got completely censored. What what exactly happened? David Friedberg (00:06:13): Yes. Saks, is that censorship? Jason Calacanis (00:06:15): Yeah. If you're a crazy loon who believes that the marketing was a false flag. What do we do then? David Sacks (00:06:22): No. That's not that's not censorship. It's just she got censured, I guess, because her colleagues thought she was out of line. That's okay. I mean, if her colleagues wanna vote for that, that's fine. Jason Calacanis (00:06:33): So she could still say crazy stuff. She just can't do it and have this certain job. David Sacks (00:06:37): Yeah. I mean, look. Let let's face it. When when politicians say crazy stuff, and it helps the other side. I mean, you know, Marjorie Green or whatever, her censorship, who that help. It helps the Democrats. You know, quite frankly, does Trump being off Twitter does that really help Democrats? I don't think so. I mean, you know, you could argue that that Biden or or or that Trump is the one unifying the opposition to Trump is the one unifying force in the democratic coalition. So it's the the the more Trump is out there, the the more it bonds the democratic coalition together. So yeah. I mean, censorship has this way of, like, backfiring, and you can't just look at it in terms of narrow short term political results. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:07:23): Speaking of censorship, I wanna get your take on something else. I think these last 2 weeks have been a complete sea change in venture capital. And let me give you the setup. It's all of a sudden seemed like there's been a decision that's been made where the ecosystem of companies will basically use their own platforms and their own mediums completely control the narrative and the dissemination of information about them. That the media in the effort of company building may have taken a big step back. You know, I think the whole sort of, like, thing on Clubhouse was really interesting. I think this guy who just joined Andreson Horowitz, who actually hosts a show on Clubhouse is really interesting. I think there's some, like, really interesting emerging managers who just have these incredibly different ways of -- Shrin Jason Calacanis (00:08:19): Round is his name. Speaker 4 (00:08:20): Sri Roberts. Jason Calacanis (00:08:20): He's been hosting good times at Speaker 1 (00:08:22): 11 10 Jason Calacanis (00:08:23): or 11 PM every night on clubhouse. Mark Andreessen comes to it every night. And, of course, Elon came, interviewed Vlad. And then last night, Zuckerberg showed up. in order to get the blueprints for Clubhouse to then put Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:35): it into Instagram and Facebook. But what do you guys what do you guys think of sort of like this in higher sector of the economy basically trying to, I guess, organize and end around -- It it's -- -- traditional media. No. No. No. David Friedberg (00:08:47): It seemed like it's just venture. Right? I mean, look at look at Trump. You know, he avoided having the traditional press conference as the the the channel for dissemination of his point of view and communication of his objectives. And he went on Twitter every day, and he just tweeted. And I think, you know, anyone who's been part of a business or operation that's had to deal with, you know, media gathering facts that that you don't consider to be true, and you can't really counter their point and then they publish, and it's static and it's out there, you are frustrated. And in the in the the world that we have today, which is many alternatives, for going direct to our customer and going direct to our audience through social media and having control over that message, it's appealing to make the switch away from traditional PR and going to social. I mean, Shamak, you don't put out press releases. You go on Twitter and you make a statement about what your intentions are and you publish your one pagers. And feel like everyone's trying to do this, and there's all this, like, trend of big companies now too, which is how do you develop a, quote, unquote, social media presence. You can speak directly to your audience and your customers without having to go press. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:50): I find it very hard to get the point across by going through traditional media Right. It's not that it's not that it can't be done, but I find it harder and harder. And the reason is because they're in such a ferocious competition with social media. And so they have to be just as click oriented and neutral as the next best tweet. That's that's trending at that time. So it's it's an almost impossible task. David Sacks (00:10:15): Well, Naval Naval had a great line about this, which I think you tweeted a long time ago, which is that the Internet commoditized the reporting of fax. And so at that point, the the traditional media went wholesale into Speaker 1 (00:10:27): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:10:27): Opinion. Speaker 1 (00:10:27): -- David Sacks (00:10:27): opinions into opinions. And so now they all have an agenda of some kind. And especially the tech press, their agenda basically is hatred of tech. I mean, they hate the people they're reporting on. I mean, Jake, how you know this. Right? I mean -- Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:10:42): I mean, having been a journalist in this, it's really interesting to hear your opinions. And if you look at trust among Republicans all time low in the press. And then just all Americans don't trust the press right now. They think there's hidden agendas. And it really is a confluence of events. What happened was the Internet caused the revenue streams of the press to get just violently compressed or eliminated. So, you know, you had Craigslist take the classified business. Google and Facebook took the ad business. in subscriptions, Netflix, Spotify, etcetera. So you have all that revenue is gone. And what that meant was they didn't have the resources to do fact checking. And then the publishing schedule because of blogging, which I was involved in, required that people file 2, 3, 4 times a day just to keep up. And so when you're filing even just twice a day, there is no time to get quotes from the subjects. So we have all, as people who are subjects, had quotes attributed to us that were like, where did you pull that quote from? Like, oh, 3 years ago, you said this or whatever. And then you don't even know you're gonna be in the story. Like, the hit piece they did on You Chamov, Some sports writer and SF Gate did some hit piece on Chamath. Did they ever call you? Did they ever say would you like to respond to us? That's how it used to work. David Friedberg (00:12:03): what you that's what you learn when you get a degree in journalism. Right? You call the subject you interview. Of course. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:07): And it used Jason Calacanis (00:12:08): to be you filed once every 2 weeks or Maybe if you were in a weekly news a news like a Newsweek or a Business Week, you filed once a week. Magazines, you filed once or twice per episode per issue or maybe once every other issue or feature writer, now they have to they have to publish so much. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:25): By the way, Jason, you said on something. -- do Jason Calacanis (00:12:27): any fact checking. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:28): you said something really, really important. It's the craziest thing where these guys will not even call you and say, here's what we're running or here's what we're gonna say. Do you wanna work through this with us? Do you wanna tell us are there any inaccuracies? We're really seeking the truth. Nobody's really seeking the truth. They're seeking clicks. Jason Calacanis (00:12:46): Yes. And so here's what happens. Yeah. The your salary is now determined by your number of followers on Twitter. As is your book deal, and your sub stack then becomes your negotiating position versus your existing publication. So someone like Harris Swishers who is not full time at the New York Times probably makes a half 1000000 or a Speaker 1 (00:13:05): $1,000,000 Jason Calacanis (00:13:05): a year doing her podcast with them in the editorial page. I I would say somewhere between 500 k and a1000000. all the other writers there are looking at other people who've gotten significant followings and saying, I have to get a big following. How do you get a big following? Well, Sachs figured that out. He he wasn't didn't have a huge following on Twitter in the last couple of months, but since we did the podcast, Saks started having an opinion and picking aside and really owning his opinion. And what kind Speaker 1 (00:13:29): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:29): But in fairness in also being super and super intelligent and thoughtful about it. Jason Calacanis (00:13:33): Of course. But anybody picking aside gets rewarded. And if you go down the middle, you don't get rewarded. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:40): Because people go, Jason Calacanis (00:13:41): that makes sense. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:42): But then I think that people then people should just be using facts as a jumping off point as opposed to, like, weaving it into the narrative so that other folks get confused. Meaning, you know, it used to be the case that a newspaper has an opinion page. Well, no. Now the whole newspaper is opinions -- Correct. Speaker 1 (00:13:56): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:56): because the facts you can just get from the AP. Right? Like, there's there's no point calling the New York Times to figure out the hell is going on in Draymond Green (00:14:03): the world. Speaker 1 (00:14:03): -- Jason Calacanis (00:14:03): should be doing is deep analysis. David Friedberg (00:14:05): Yeah. Like, the New York Times article that you brought up a couple weeks ago, Timat, that we talked about on the pod was about the the the trust fund kids who are giving away all their money, you know, it wasn't an analysis of how many people with this amount of wealth are giving away their money. It was anecdotes to make the case that this is the storyline that they kinda wanted to to progress. And, you know, that is, I think, the the where you're able to kinda stay within the bounds of traditional journalism but still, you know, get a narrative across that is a bit sensational, and it is a bit kind of, you know, inspiring Speaker 1 (00:14:36): -- Jason Calacanis (00:14:37): And Freeport, all you need to do having bit on the inside of these discussions is when you have one person, it's a profile as an example. When you have 2, it's still a kind of a profile with an example. But once you get to 3, you got a trend piece. And so -- Yeah. Speaker 1 (00:14:51): -- Jason Calacanis (00:14:51): and or say to you is, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:14:52): if you can get me Jason Calacanis (00:14:53): a third person who's a trust fund kid, now we gotta trend piece, and we're in the clear. So let's do that and do the anecdotes instead of actual research, which then takes time and resources. And if you look, what Andreessen Horowitz has specifically done with Clubhouse is, And it's really freaked out some New York Times reporters. I won't say which ones because every time I mention this one reporter, she pulls the female reporter card. And she pulled it last night where she said, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:15:17): I'm a female reporter consultant for Jason Calacanis (00:15:19): Mark Andreessen. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:15:20): Yeah. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:15:20): Yeah. I'm not gonna say who it is Chamath Palihapitiya (00:15:21): because she gets really upset. It's Taylor Lawrence. but she I mean, she, you know, she tweeted it. So I don't think she's hiding from -- She doesn't submit David Friedberg (00:15:27): it to that, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:15:27): and I I didn't wanna put it in the public. Speaker 8 (00:15:29): It was Jason Calacanis (00:15:29): now bringing up her name, she will I guarantee you tweet. Well, can I say something about -- -- being harassed by Jason Calacanis because I'm a woman. She's saying that Mark and Teresa and Andreessen Horowitz blocked her from their clubhouse room. When you're blocked from a clubhouse room, you don't get access. So she said, I'm gonna make my own shadow account. She did make a a puppet account. Now she's listening in, and she got upset at me because I told people in a room, hey. There's a New York Times reporting room. Just be careful because this could wind up in print. She called that harassment. and gender based race. David Sacks (00:15:59): And and and the the the thing they're complaining about now is that all of us are trying to go around and just tell our stories directly. And so they're all enraged. They're saying, how dare Mark Andreessen or, you know, a 16z, you know, not talk to us. It's like, well, why why should they? I mean, you know, my experience with the press has been that about 75% of the time when they ask me for comment on something, ends up being a hit piece. Maybe not on me, but on some something I care about. And they they they twist what you say or take one little quote out of context to support the article, and you end up giving credence to an article that you completely disagree with. And so and so all of us have to stop taking those calls. I mean, We just know. We just know there's such an agenda behind most of these calls that we just, like, don't take them anymore. Yeah. That's that's why we're going direct. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:16:51): Yeah. I'll say one thing about Taylor Lawrence. I I have learned a lot because I feel like, you know, being 44, I'm kind of out of the no. Draymond Green (00:16:58): Yes. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:16:58): And I've learned a lot because she's she has her finger on process, Taylor. She I mean, it's really it's been really fun reading her reading her stuff. The other thing I'll say is on the Andreessen thing, I think what they have finally stumbled into like, I remember when, you know, Andreessen started about a year before I started Social Capital. And I remember the whole push was, you know, multi services. Right? And they were going to be recruiting and sales and this and that You know, I suspect that all of that was kind of like pretty meager ROI and not that it just burned a ton of fees. But I think this thing that they're doing is really smart because if they effectively build their own distribution arm through newsletters, substack, podcasts, you know, Clubhouse shows, whatever, that's a force to be reckoned with because then if you're a venture investor, you either have to be like them with their own version. In which case, the the brand event Andreessen really matters Or you're on this path of where the trend of venture is already going, which is solo GPs and individual people are the brands. And there's gonna be very little space in the middle. So for example, like, I do think that, like, you know, the all in podcast helps, for example, David in Craft, or Jason Yuen Launch, but you guys also -- -- is going crazy. But and you guys also stand alone as individuals. you know, if you're a traditional firm, you know, pick your organization which neither has brands nor has distribution. what are you doing? You're probably forced to just pay the highest price. And so those returns for those folks in the middle get really bad, I think, over time, And you at some point have to decide, are you an individual person? Right? And there's, like, some amazing up and coming GPs. We know them, Lockheed Groom, folks like that. Or are you are you Andreessen Horowitz Speaker 1 (00:18:43): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:18:43): Yeah. -- with this massive distribution? Jason Calacanis (00:18:45): Well, I mean and now we have to just I think face the reality that we are in competition. And I think that's what is making the press even more That's what makes the situation more complicated. I'm not saying the press is targeting people they consider competitive, but the press is not getting Vlad, Elon, or Zuck, for interviews. But because Mark Andreessen has, you know, clubhouse now, they put themselves on the suggested follower list. just like Twitter put Om, Kara Swisher, and some other journalists on the suggested followers for Twitter. What that was was it was payment basically, like, a 1,000,000 followers. Now Andreessen has a 1,000,000 followers, Balaji, all these folks from Andreessen, I believe, have, like, a 1,000,000 followers. So the press is complaining about that as well because they can then dominate them in terms of getting subjects. So they've lost the subjects, and none of us get on the phone with the press with very few exceptions. And where is Sway or Vox or Ezra Klein when compared to our podcast. Right? Like, we're right up there with them, if not ahead of them. I mean, we're the number one tech podcast. So it's it's pretty crazy when you think about how much their world has changed, and now they're directly in competition with Andreessen Horowitz all in podcast. you know, pick the firm doing a venture thing, and that's gonna make this even more contentious. David Sacks (00:20:01): I appreciate it. I I I totally agree with that, but I also I I do think fundamentally that all of us wouldn't have felt the same need to go around them if we didn't feel that there was such a strong agenda. Just to bring what have you guys heard of gel man, amnesia effect? Jason Calacanis (00:20:16): Michael Creighton David Sacks (00:20:17): okay. So Michael Creighton, you know, who wrote Dress Park and it like a true polymath and genius. Right? Jason Calacanis (00:20:23): Yeah. Airframe, very good, by the way. David Sacks (00:20:25): mean, he's so many brilliant things. He was even a a Hollywood director, true, multi talented guy. Anyway, he described the the gel mane Amnesia effect as follows. He says you open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. So in this case, it was a physics paper by on gel man. Okay? Speaker 8 (00:20:44): Oh, I Jason Calacanis (00:20:44): do know this. Yeah. David Sacks (00:20:45): That's great. He says he says you read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong. It actually presents a story backwards. reversing cause and effect. I call these the wet streets cause rain stories. The paper is full of them. Okay? In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement, the multiple errors in a story. But then you turn the page to some other section to National International Affairs and you read the rest of the paper as if it was somehow more accurate. David Friedberg (00:21:17): Totally. David Sacks (00:21:18): You turn the page and forget what you know, which is that the journalist just gets so much wrong. And and I think, you know and and all of us kind of suffer from gel man, amnesia sometimes because we still, I think, take when we read something in the paper, we take it at face value. And I think but we we all know that when it comes to tech reporting or whatever, there's so much misinformation this get gets put out by these official channels. And I think at the end of the day, what's happening now with these and run around the traditional media it's all a response to gel mane, amnesia. David Friedberg (00:21:51): I think it's a problem of complexity. You know, I I remember years ago, I would I was younger, I would read the paper or read magazines about science and engineering, and I was, you know, really interested in these topics. And it was only years later when I actually realized how wrong so many of those articles were as I started to read the original scientific research papers But it takes a skill set and it takes a significant amount more time to really go into depth into those papers and to actually read them. the same is true as you point out with, like, you know, geopolitical issues. Like, the complexity of what goes on. Yeah. Here here's what I like. Jason Calacanis (00:22:28): And I was a journalist, we would have about 10 to 20 percent of the information about what occurred when we've published our first story. And then maybe every subsequent follow-up, we get another 10%, which means if we were really hooked into a story and we did 5 versions of that story, we might get to Speaker 1 (00:22:45): 40%, 50% Jason Calacanis (00:22:47): understanding. Whereas when the 4 of us are doing a deal and then you see this impact, you know the press is getting it completely wrong, and that was fine if you felt the press was fair. Right? But just like what's happening is now, there it there's a distinct feeling with subjects that they're being treated unfairly. And what I do, when somebody connects and they say, hey. Can you comment on Robin or whatever? I said, I can't. But I do have a great story for you about a world positive start up. And I kept doing this with Teddy who kept asking me to give information on friends of mine, you know, the guy from recode or whatever who covers, like, philanthropy. And every time they contact me, I say, yeah. You know, I can't comment on that. but you can talk to the founder. But I have 3 world positive stories. Are you interested in any of them? And I just do that kinda to troll them, and they've never, in 5 years, taken me up on profiling a world positive. So if the press wants to turn this around, a very simple solution is one for you, one of your hate stories. So if you for every time you wanna take down a company, maybe write about one company that's doing something good. There's some company doing something in carbon sequestering right now that is super valid and world positive right about it. The only time they write about Tesla is when Elon trips or, you know, something somebody dies in a car or they write about Uber, because of some tragedy. Sorry. David Friedberg (00:24:00): I just wanna say, like, Jason, like, just going back a second, like, your point is one about bias, which is, you know, creating sensationalism, sales stories. It's what consumers wanna consume. Sure. At the end of the day. So there's certainly, you know, a market driven model there. The the point I was trying to make earlier is there's also a separate problem around complexity, which is complex issues take time and take depth to truly understand. And so to really understand what's going on in the Middle East or what's going on inside of a company like Facebook, requires more than a 5 paragraph journal article. It requires some hours of conversation and dialogue. And I think, by the way, the craving for that depth, which delivers truth and understanding is what, you know, podcasts can provide, and Clubhouse is providing long form Speaker 8 (00:24:40): content that allows you to go into the Nuance David Friedberg (00:24:40): and into the tech share it into the depth of what's going on in the world as opposed to having the 5 paragraph littered with ads, BuzzFeed article, that says something sensational, but it simplifies something to the point that it's often wrong or completely misses the real depth of what's going on. And, you know, it's like and and I think that I I think they're both they're both they're both kinda playing it back. Speaker 8 (00:25:03): Yeah. And Jason Calacanis (00:25:03): then I wanna give our prediction. David Sacks (00:25:04): The the they're both what what you're describing are both issues, and I think they're related in the following sense that if you were to go to, like, any of these reporters, like the people that Jay Kal mentioned a couple of names. Okay? If you were to filter their by lines, and see all of their not not one story, but look at, like, all of the headlines for all their stories over, say, the past year you will definitely see a trend. They will all they will all have, you know, like -- Negative. For for certain reporters, it'll be a 100% negative about tech 0% positive. Jason Calacanis (00:25:34): Aaron Griffin, I think, is the reporter who's one of the top tech reporters at the New York Times. It's just like Coinbase, Coinbase, Coinbase away. David Sacks (00:25:41): Yeah. Exactly. So when's the last time they wrote a positive story. So there is this huge agenda there, and and I think it prevents people from getting into the complexity because it's a lot easier to write. You know? Speaker 9 (00:25:52): Here's the prediction. Jason Calacanis (00:25:53): And then I'm gonna make a bold prediction here. The media companies are gonna you know, they're obviously picking they obviously went subscription. Now they're dealing with Sub Stack, Clubhouse, podcast all chipping away. I think what's gonna happen is you're going to see media brands built around certain podcasts and they're going to work subject first. In other words, the subject of the story are are gonna create media properties. So if you look at what we've done with All in and obviously I have this weekend startups, if we did the Friedberg on Science podcast, And it was just Friedberg explaining a science topic. And then then we did Chlamov on public markets, and then we did Saks on, you know, outright conspiracy theories. And we just had Five pots now. Our work could be something else. I don't know. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:26:36): Guns. I don't know. We pro life. I don't know Jason Calacanis (00:26:42): what Saxx is gonna do, but you know what I no. Sachs could do something on SaaS. So SaaS on SaaS, Friedberg on science, Chamath on thirst traps because we can start ups. Then we have all in. That's 5. 5 full pods. of an hour a half each. If each of you did your own pod and I have my pod and we made the all in network, the all in news network, I guarantee you we would be within 5 years, you know, right up there with CNN and MSNBC. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:27:09): Well, one thing that Jason and I have been talking with now is I really do wanna start a Twitch channel. And I think part of why is I'd like to really actually have more conversations about, you know, companies and stocks and Speaker 1 (00:27:24): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:27:24): With youth. With the youths. Yeah. With the youths and, like, you know, really get into the details. And, like, also, when we, you know, partner with a company, bring them on the show so that we could spend an hour or 2 and talk about things in detail, it's totally lost. And and the crazy thing that I realized for me is to near to your point, Jason, like, You know, we have enough distribution now where where millions of people can see it. And if that has real impact because, you know, you you can allow people to judge, and I'm not necessarily saying we're better or worse than anybody else. But if we're not using it for the per the express purpose of selling ads necessarily and getting paid, I do think there's a better likelihood that it's that the outcome is better. Draymond Green (00:28:05): Well, I mean, Jason Calacanis (00:28:05): a big part of the success of this has been the banning of guests and the banning of Speaker 1 (00:28:09): -- Jason Calacanis (00:28:09): The banning of ads. and banning of ads, people really have responded to that. And I think if we put the Twitch channel up and we just throw in all in, throw in this week in startups. And then, you know, a a Saks point, counterpoint show, and I I'm being sincere, Freiberg, just Freiberg on science. And, you know, that's 5 shows, and we just say every Friday, there's gonna be 5 shows. Like, this is your weekend, and we're gonna loop it, and there'll be a q and a. I guarantee you we could get 5 other besties to do shows. You know? And we would -- Well, Speaker 10 (00:28:38): didn't he in this way, isn't David Friedberg (00:28:39): it didn't you guys originally, like so for the audience that that doesn't know this, originally, the all in podcast, was Chamath and Jason. They were talking about doing a show together. And then COVID hit, and they I think you got to ask me on the pod 0 to talk about COVID stuff. But what was the original goal you guys had? You know, Chemut, isn't that what you wanted to do originally? Was to have kind of a direct audience and a conversation about, you know, whatever it is you wanted to talk about where you could have this kind of long form dialogue. You know, what what did you guys why did you guys want wanna do it in the first place? I mean, wasn't that kind of the idea Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:14): I'll tell you what what sort of, like, my general viewpoint is, which is that, like, we are atomizing our affinity. So I think that, like, we've gone from believing in institutions. And now I I think we fundamentally mistrust institutions. Then we spent 30 or 40 years believing in companies. And now I think we basically don't believe in companies anymore. And now we're sort of at the at the at the bleeding edge of what where belief and trust exist, which is at an individual person level. Jason Calacanis (00:29:46): Ownership. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:47): Ownersability. So so, like, you know, I I and I think that when an individual has the potential to not just be about something for themselves but also for themes that other people care about. That's when you get real heat. And, obviously, the most impressive example of that is Elon because, you know, e represents exploration, engineering, science, climate change, you know -- Names. -- all all of this stuff -- Not really. Speaker 1 (00:30:14): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:30:14): not really. I these are the things that really what matters. No. And so and so what it shows people is, like, I just wanna find affinity around a few key people. And what he is is not the end state. He's the beginning of the beginning. Right? So what's gonna happen is all of us will say, I don't trust institutions. So whatever they put out is just gonna be corporate. I don't trust companies. What they say is going to be corporate. I'm gonna take my best shot at finding folks that I think are real. Yep. And I'm just gonna get that that's the thing. That's why I wanted to do this with Jason. And then with the 4 of us, I think what happened almost accidentally is it's like a real plurality of views And and you don't have to agree with all of us. And frankly, nobody does. And we don't generally agree a Speaker 1 (00:31:04): 100% Chamath Palihapitiya (00:31:05): But I think that's what's happening. So I think we're another much smaller than Elon, but as another example of you're gonna wanna find your own truth tellers you know, folks that you will get behind. And and I think that, you know, business people, that's where they're gonna emerge. Because if you look at that 1st generation of star, or Kim Kardashian and the Kanye West of the world, that's arcing. You know? Then people went to, like, the Mister Beast, and that's still building. So you have the business celebrity building. You have sort of next generation celebrity building, and I think that's what Jason Calacanis (00:31:37): it's all built. David Friedberg (00:31:38): Let me just ask you guys one question because you know, I think the the intention with with journalists was kind of to be arbitrated of the truth or discover as a fact and to to deliver that fact. to their audience. And when you have this direct relationship between the source and the audience, as you do through social media and Twitter and whatnot, There isn't an arbiter. There isn't a third party, and everything that then is said by the source is taken at face value. How does that play out in a world where, you know, Trump may say things like, hey. There's election fraud when the facts don't line up. And now you have ability to not have an arbiter, and these people, anyone that now has a direct relationship with a large audience, can say anything they want, and kind of drive large change without those things necessarily being rooted in some, you know, relative kind of objective sense. So -- Sex? David Sacks (00:32:31): Well, I mean, I think it's a marketplace of ideas, and everybody is competing. And the the answer to bad speech or bad ideas is more speech and better ideas. And -- Yep. I mean, that's the Calacanis it is very frustrating to see, you know, people propagating things that aren't true. However, none of us has a monopoly on truth. We can't say for sure what it is. And so we arrive at the truth to sort of a free marketplace of ideas. There is no better solution than that. You know? There is no magical way to entrust a small elite of people with, you know, the right to censor and tell us what the truth is without essentially, you know, creating a worse situation. And, you know, that that's the fundamental problem. So, yeah, look. We're we're we're gonna we're we're going to this era in which there there there is no you know, if you go back, like, 50 years ago, you had Walter Cronkite saying, and that's the way it is. Everyone believed him. And then the New York Times was the paper of record, and people believed that. Jason Calacanis (00:33:30): That's fit to print. David Sacks (00:33:31): Right. Exactly. And so but that's been steadily eroding for decades. And now the Internet is the final erosion of that. And And look, I think it's not an all it's not a bad thing because in order for journalism to work, you need all the journalists to buy into a certain code of journalistic behavior and ethics, which is all about objectivity. And the press doesn't buy into that anymore. They don't believe in objectivity anymore. Jason Calacanis (00:33:58): No. at Speaker 1 (00:33:58): -- Jason Calacanis (00:33:59): Especially, I'll tell you something, Saxx. Young writers, I found, when we were trying to hire young writers for inside as an example, They all wanted to write anti Trump, you know, pro woke, whatever. They had some axe to grind. And I said, you know, you should really write for an opinion page, but you haven't done any journalism yet. So probably do journalism for 10 years. And then the 2nd decade, you earn the right to be on the opinion page. Let's put in some reps. Do 10 years of this. And you know, it just never actually caused Speaker 8 (00:34:29): it. Wait. Jason Calacanis (00:34:30): Do you guys hear something? Speaker 8 (00:34:31): You guys see that movie from David Friedberg (00:34:33): from Duff till dawn, and there's that moment where the movie just suddenly the scene changes and everything's different. Jason Calacanis (00:34:38): What's that -- Oh. Speaker 1 (00:34:38): -- Jason Calacanis (00:34:39): is somebody at the Speaker 1 (00:34:40): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:40): Oh. What's going on? Jason Calacanis (00:34:41): That's the rehab headline. Wait. What? Somebody's calling the bestie phone. Did you give the bestie phone number to somebody, Shamal? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:48): Oh my god. It's somebody. Wait. Jason Calacanis (00:34:50): What's going on? Who's the hair? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:52): You what? You up? You what's going on? Jason Calacanis (00:34:55): Alan, okay. Let's see. Is anybody there? Hello? Hello? Woah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:35:06): Draymond Green in the house. Draymond Green. -- Rusty Gasty? David Friedberg (00:35:10): That's against me. Draymond Green (00:35:11): What's going on, Westies? What's up, Westie? Speaker 8 (00:35:14): Where are you? Are you in a Jason Calacanis (00:35:16): are you in a coronavirus COVID, quarantined somewhere in an NBA bubble. Where are you? Draymond Green (00:35:22): I am. I'm in I'm in Dallas stuck in the hotel with bad water pressure. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:35:27): Oh, the worst. That honestly, that is the thing. If you had to give me the most luxurious hotel in the world, but with a tap a faucet for water pressure. No thanks. I would rather sleep I would rather sleep in a box with a great with a great shower. Draymond Green (00:35:42): The water pressure is everything. Jason Calacanis (00:35:44): Everything. Alright. On the call, obviously, drafted by the Golden State Warriors in the 2nd round, 35th overall in the Speaker 1 (00:35:51): 2020 Jason Calacanis (00:35:52): NBA draft, 3 time NBA champion, 201617, defensive player of the year 2 time NBA All Sir, five time all defense and drafted behind Michael Kidd, Gilchrist, young warriors, Harrison Barnes, Tyler Zeller. Miles clumsy. And I don't know how many people got drafted ahead of you, Draymond, but Speaker 8 (00:36:13): I know that you can Jason Calacanis (00:36:13): repeat them in order. Speaker 8 (00:36:14): Is there anything else after the day, you Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:16): who has achieved even a Jason Calacanis (00:36:18): fraction of what you've achieved in the NBA, Draymond? Draymond Green (00:36:20): There's 34 guns drafted ahead of me, and I definitely can still name all of them. in saying that, I think there are a few Anthony Davis. Jason Calacanis (00:36:30): He's done okay. He got one ring. Draymond Green (00:36:34): Damien Miller. Jason Calacanis (00:36:35): No rings? Draymond Green (00:36:37): But a stud, though. Stud. Jason Calacanis (00:36:39): Very good player, but no rings. I'm just saying. Draymond Green (00:36:42): And Bradley Bill. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:43): Bradley. Speaker 8 (00:36:44): Okay. Also no rings. Draymond Green (00:36:45): So yeah. So -- I got all the guns in the rings category, but then I don't have types of we'll call it in the ring. category, Patrick McCall has the same amount of range as me. So -- Who? Speaker 1 (00:36:54): -- Draymond Green (00:36:54): you know. Speaker 8 (00:36:57): So -- Oh. Draymond Green (00:37:00): Respect to those guys, I may. Although they know how to raise, I got nays of respect for those guys. Jason Calacanis (00:37:05): We were thinking about what to talk to you about coming on the pod. And we have a series of questions just about being an NBA player and what you've learned and how good you've become. I just I'll start it off with one question which is, it seems like every year you get a little better at something How do you do that? Do you, like, say, over the summer, I'm just gonna be better at my screens. I'm gonna be better at x, y, or z, Or do you just try to get incrementally better all year long? Draymond Green (00:37:33): I mean, you always wanna try to get better all year long, but the reality is with this season and with the way, not this season, in particular, an NBA season in general, you don't have much time to get better. So your college is getting better on a fly And when when you're in your workouts during the season, you're just trying to maintain because they're such little prep time. But during the off season, you really lock in on couple of things and try to get better at those things. And, you know, I think I've become a much better ball handler. I think I see the floor much better. I think I've gotten better overall as a player. The one area that I wanted to see more growth in is my shooting. And, you know, when I'm shooting a basketball on my own, I know for sure I've gotten better at shooting. Like, you know, you're coming to jail with me. I shoot the lights out every time. No. But it's it's about getting over that mental block in the game. You know, I think that's the thing people don't realize is, you know, I shot the lights out for years in a row. And, you know, I had a year where I think I shot 39% from 3, but then you go through the struggle. And once you lose it mentally, it's hard to get it back. And so I'm fighting that challenge now. Although I know I can make the shot, it's when you get in the game. Literally, gotta get over that hurdle. Jason Calacanis (00:38:49): What what do you do? You do like meditation, or do you have, like, a coach who does, like, positive visualizations or something like that? Or is it just reps and working through a shooting slump. Draymond Green (00:38:59): But I've definitely incorporated some meditation on the Calm app. Jason Calacanis (00:39:03): Thank you. Draymond Green (00:39:04): Shut up for Speaker 1 (00:39:05): -- Speaker 8 (00:39:05): Jesus Christ. -- you. Yeah. Did you give him all jets? No more. Hang on. You've described that shit. On the only podcast, David Friedberg (00:39:13): you have to disclose if you have object or shipping shares right now. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:16): What's your beacon comment? Sure. Speaker 8 (00:39:18): You don't have any knowledge yet. Okay. Good. Jason Calacanis (00:39:20): No shares yet. David Friedberg (00:39:21): Hey, great job. Are are are are other players in the NBA struggling right now? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:24): I mean, it was, like, COVID over the David Friedberg (00:39:26): last year and the shutdown and the 5th starts and everything. I mean, is it kinda tough to get in the game mentally for folks? Speaker 8 (00:39:31): And is it -- It's brutal. Draymond Green (00:39:32): It's brutal. You know, you talked to guys around the league, There was even some guys, and I won't throw anybody under the bus. But and I'm talking about one super star in particular who I've never seen him out of shape. And he's so out of shape, Speaker 8 (00:39:48): and now everybody He's like a boy. Don't call it. Don't call it. James Harden. Yeah. Draymond Green (00:39:54): Well, it's it's not Luke or James Harden, but I've never seen this guy to shake And he's out of shape right now, and I asked him when he was fired, and he was like, man, the bubble, like, oh, it's just been hard. and I completely understand that. I mean, what it's it's brutal. And this season, currently, you know, I don't wanna sound like just this over privileged guy who's complaining about being able to make a living because there's so many people who's lost their jobs, and and I don't take you know, I've been able to go to work for granted at all, but this season has been extremely tough. you know, whereas an NBA day normally is, like, maybe 4 to 6 hours. Like, every day right now, it's, like, 10 to 12 hours. Wow. And, you know, it's COVID testing. You for 11 AM practice, we have to be at the facility at 8:45 AM. Oh, wow. And and then you have to be back at this facility to test no later than 5 between 4 and 5 field. And so you you kinda have these long drawn out days, and about maybe 2 hours of that is actual work. time. You know? And then you're just trying to do some recovery things to kill time. You can't leave a hotel. You know, for myself, one thing that I have always found in NBA season is, it's a ton of pressure obviously, and it's very, very demanding. Like, you can't really do much else. As you guys know, well, I'm always trying to coordinate with y'all about playing poker around a sketch. You can't really do anything else. But one place that I found is, normally, I'll take, like, a day trip to Aspen, you know, or or do different things like that, a day trip to LA to kinda clear your mind and get a release. You don't have those releases now. You can't take a day trip. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:41:44): Yeah. You Draymond Green (00:41:44): can't get away. Even on off days, you have to go to the facility and test. And so even just seeing that facility that day, although you may not even go in and work out, but you drive into that facility every day. mentally, it's exhausting. And so it's been a very tough season to say the least. And I think a lot of guys are struggling with it and saying that, we all wanna continue to earn our younger. Speaker 8 (00:42:07): So -- It must be better to be -- -- we try to do. David Friedberg (00:42:09): Must be better to be playing versus being stuck at home with with the the league shutdown. Right? I mean, it's gotta Speaker 8 (00:42:15): be better. For sure. Yeah. Draymond Green (00:42:16): I mean, it's better for all of us. Obviously, you know, from an economical standpoint, we all wanna continue to make money, you know, and and provide for our families. We all want to continue to take this lead to new heights. So it's always better for us to be on the court than off. And but that comes with certain challenges, and you just gotta deal with those challenges and try to continue to press forward. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:42:37): Day, before you came on, we were talking about the media. And we're talking about how all these industries used to rely on the media to tell their story. And now all these industries are finding ways to go around them. And it's even happening in venture capital. Right? In the business of sports, I found this thing that that I thought was really interesting. Ronaldo signed a $1,000,000,000 lifetime contract. Right? I think this is, like, 2, 3 years insane. But then it turned out that in one year, he generated Speaker 1 (00:43:13): $474,000,000 Chamath Palihapitiya (00:43:14): of value for Nike just through social media because of the number of followers he had. which I think is just absolutely nuts. What do you think about the media? What do you think about your ability to tell your version of the facts through the media? Draymond Green (00:43:30): I think we've definitely grown in that area as you said in, you know, in all businesses, whether it's basketball, whether it's venture. You know, just all over the border, everyone is grown in that area and kinda start taking the bull by the horns and try to tell their own narrative. You know, if you want me to play quite frank with you, I hate the media. And I'd be Speaker 1 (00:43:52): -- Jason Calacanis (00:43:52): So does Saxon? Draymond Green (00:43:56): And saying that, I could possibly be a part of that group one day, you know, but I hate the media. And the reason I hate the media is I don't hate particular people. You know, I have relationships with a ton of people and media, great people. I hate what media entails in today's day and age. You know, it's all about who can stir up the most commotion? What happened with this guy? what happened with that guy. It's less about, man, this guy is struggling on the floor and more about James Harden was in a up. Yeah. You know, so how much controversy can we stir up about James Harden being in the club as opposed to if we really wanted to talk bad about James Harden, when he was on Houston Rockets, he was bumping it. Now we all know James Harden is an a bomb player, but he was completely dogged it with the Houston Rockets. He's completely turned it up and turned back into James Harden as he's gotten to the nets. But you can easily if you wanna nitpick at James Harden, talk about James hard and not playing well. But in time, we're gonna talk about James Harden being in the club that night and he was at little baby's birthday party And although, you know, I I disagree with some of the things you were doing, why is that all the Right. David Friedberg (00:45:10): It's all about it's all about clicks and and and selling ad dollars against it. We were just talking about that before you got on. Speaker 8 (00:45:15): Look at Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:16): look at what happened to Kyrie. In in the span of literally a week, Kyrie had both sides of the same coin. 1 was he violates the shelter in place or whatever and was, like, at a birthday party with his family, and then he gets suspended. And on the other side, Kyrie had bought a house for George Floyd's family. Draymond Green (00:45:32): Yes. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:33): And so it's like both are true, but you have to go through these 2 new cycles where first, he's just a piece of shit, and then he's this amazing philanthropist. What's the point? Draymond Green (00:45:42): Yeah. I I agree. I don't I don't get the point. I and, like, like Freeport just said, it's it's all about clicks. David Friedberg (00:45:52): Yeah. Draymond Green (00:45:52): And I think that's short lived, you know. At at some point, Everyone's gonna get tired of your clickbait. And so, yes, it may drive you revenue right now. It may, you know, bring more subscribers right now. But in the long term, people are gonna get sick of that. At the end of the day, authenticity always wins out. When you create great products when you give everything great to whatever business that you're giving, that's always gonna outlive the bullshit. And so you got and and that's why you're starting to see saw me so much turnover with media people and leaving this job and going to this place and leaving other place because people just sick of that shit. So so I feel like all of these guys are driving themselves out. You're constantly you're killing your relationships with players. You're killing your and and when I say players, I'm not just talking about NBA players. You guys are the players in the virtual space. Where the players in the in the basketball space you're killing your relationships with the players. So, eventually, you're just gonna be stuck there, tweeting out bullshit and making bullshit articles That number on cosign too, and then no one wants to fucking hear you anymore. I don't know who's it. Speaker 8 (00:47:02): Oh, boy. Looks like Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:03): we got our bestie in rotation now. Yeah. That's got a gang type a little rant, a little Draymond. Speaker 10 (00:47:10): Oh, man. David Sacks (00:47:11): Your first bestie rant that Draymond. We we've all we've all had our moments. We've all Speaker 8 (00:47:16): had our -- Draymond, David Friedberg (00:47:17): have you watched or listened to any of this podcast before? Draymond Green (00:47:20): I was cool. Are you fucking kidding me? Speaker 8 (00:47:22): I don't know. David Sacks (00:47:25): I I have a I have a question, actually. So so yeah. And I'm not sure if the viewers know because from Jason's introduction, that we actually play poker with you. Draymond Green (00:47:33): Right. You're right. David Sacks (00:47:34): That's how I got to know you. Mhmm. And, you know, obviously, it's been a real thrill and because you're a great guy, and it's also really seem to get a window into your world. But I'm curious, like, what do you get out of hanging out with us or, you know, these these Jason Calacanis (00:47:48): These users, Dave White Nursing. Speaker 9 (00:47:51): Yeah. So I'm you know? David Sacks (00:47:53): And and then, you know, maybe use that as a segue to also talk about what you're doing in business these days. because I think that's interesting. Draymond Green (00:48:00): What what I get from hanging out with you guys is number one incredible friend. You know, I think that's what's been the most important thing for me. It's just building friendships that will go far beyond any of you guys doing any deals that are going far beyond me doing any deals or me playing basketball. And that's the thing that I cherish the most. You know, obviously, it started with best to see bringing me into the poker game that are seducing it to everyone. And then all of you guys welcoming me with open arms. And, you know, I always say in the groups in our group chats, anytime that there's a debate going on, I make sure to throw my claim route there. Hey. I can't talk. Anything with you guys, I know everyone can talk circles around me, but this is how I feel on said topic And Speaker 1 (00:48:49): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:48:50): Tell tell us about the tell us about the temperature in America. Draymond Green (00:48:54): The temperature in America fucked up. And and I think, you know, where we are today as a country, It's no different than where we worked 30 years ago, 40 years ago. We just live in a day and age of social media where we can see everything. And so the same battle cry that doctor King was crying 50 years ago, it's still currently going on today. It's the same exact thing or 60 years ago, it's the same exact things that's that's taking place today. And our country is 1 in in 1 in a month. sucked up spaces it's ever been in. And then saying that, it's in just about the same place that it's always been in. Speaker 8 (00:49:38): Yeah. Draymond Green (00:49:39): And so, you know, we've super caught a shift for so long that it seems now like, oh, police killings. all an all time high of shooting unarmed people. You know, racism is at an all time high. It's not an all time high. It's the same that it's been. It's just on the it's it's being pushed to the forefront now Speaker 1 (00:50:01): -- Draymond Green (00:50:01): Yeah. Speaker 1 (00:50:01): -- Draymond Green (00:50:01): as opposed to it being on the back burner before. Mhmm. And so that's that's just kinda where we are as a country. You know, that's I Speaker 8 (00:50:10): think things are giving things are good. That's You David Friedberg (00:50:12): you think sentiment's gonna shift, Draymond? I mean, you know, the protests that happened in this country over the last year obviously happened during COVID, and and I think it magnified them a lot more than similar protests have taken place historically. But, you know, are we seeing, like, sentiment shift in the United States in terms of policy and people's behaviors and and attitudes right now? Draymond Green (00:50:36): I think some people behavior, but I I don't think anything is gonna shift. In part and partly because we live in a fake ass world where no one can say anything. You say anything you get cashier for. You're I I think, you know, in in telling your truth which in order to create the change that we need in America. People have to be able to speak the truth. And if you can't speak the truth without getting fucking destroyed, and a part of the bullshit cancel culture that we all have to deal with, then how can you ever create change to a lie Liza is what we've been facing for 100 years. But yet, when you get in front of a microphone, You have to be very conscious of what you say because it may piss this group of people off or it may piss that group of people off. And then you're never allowed to tell the fucking truth. So how will we ever move forward as a country if no one can tell the truth and you only get canceled. Speaker 8 (00:51:35): Yeah. Draymond Green (00:51:35): So you cancel who tells the truth, and we fucking push floors all the lies would never move anywhere as a country, so I don't think we're going anywhere. Jason Calacanis (00:51:44): Seems like in the NBA, we went from the player saying, listen. I don't wanna touch that. Michael Jordan was very clear in the last dance. Like, you know, I'm I'm a I'm an athlete. I don't wanna talk about politics. I don't wanna lose half the audience. And then you had you know, Melo and, you know, LeBron and a bunch of folks see Chris Paul, I guess, was in that group too, Dwayne when they came out and said, hey. Listen. We gotta talk about this. We gotta talk about race in America. And then that culminated with the Black Lives Matter branding everything in the bubble and that kind of historic moment. What's the what's what was the vibe inside of the NBA when the player said, listen, this is important to us if we're gonna get back on the court, we need to make this front and center. This is our priority And then you let's face it. You got a lot of owners in the league, maybe who are old, white guys, maybe they don't wanna bring this kind of heat. They don't want this kind of debate. They wanna just play ball, show up in trouble, all this nonsense. What was that moment like when you guys said, no. This is what we have to do if we're gonna get back on the court? I Draymond Green (00:52:51): think I think guys have just had enough. And more most importantly, I think now more than ever, guys truly understand the power of the athlete, you know, and the Chamath Palihapitiya (00:53:03): Exactly. Closing the loop on what we just said, you we we control the narrative. You control the narrative. Draymond Green (00:53:09): Absolutely. And and so we're we're just kinda in a space where we understand this shit don't sell without us. And the things that matter to us has to matter to the lead now. Speaker 8 (00:53:21): Right. Draymond Green (00:53:21): And saying that, I think, We have a commissioner that supports everything we stand for. And when you have a commissioner like Adam Silver who is and full support of everything that the players stand for. It's never trying to fight us. It's never trying to put a muzzle on us and tell us not to stand up for what we believe in. that that's a very powerful thing, and that's why the NBA is the most powerful sports league in the world because we have a commissioner who's onboard and who not only supports what the players think and what we believe him, but he takes it even a step further. You know? And and you don't see that. You you see the NFL tell, guys, you have to stand, you know, or or stay in the locker room. Adam Silver don't do us don't do that to us. And that's why there's always friction between their commissioner and their players. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:14): David, what did you think about the storm the capital when you were watching that? What was going through your mind? Draymond Green (00:54:20): We we see the 2 different sides of America the first thing that went through my mind was I wonder if that was a black lives matter protest or or black lows matter protests have stormed in the capital, how much of a bloodbath would have been. It would have been one of the biggest blowouts in in American history. You know? And and and so immediately when I saw it first thing I thought of was like, wow. How how is this even happening? Like and let alone it, it not happening. No one and and by the way, I don't wish death or anyone. But -- Oh, yeah. Speaker 1 (00:55:00): -- Draymond Green (00:55:00): I know that if those were Melinated people who were storming into the capital building, it would have been bloodshed everywhere. Jason Calacanis (00:55:08): They would upload it. Draymond Green (00:55:09): And to facts. Absolutely. And so it just kinda really, once again, just revealed how there's Two sides of America. And as I said before, until we tell the truth about it, we'll still we'll continue to live in a day and age where else be too sizable of America. David Friedberg (00:55:26): Draymond, when when COVID first started, And we went into lockdown, and we were all texting with each other talking about, like, how crazy the world had become. One of the things that stuck with me and still sticks with me is the comments you made over our text chain about how it feels like you felt growing up. Can you just explain what you meant by that and, like, just share that with our audience that's listening? because it was such a striking comment. We were all like, oh my gosh. Like, I can't go outside. I can't, like, go to the store. Like, this this world is crazy, and you were like, this is what it was And it was just such a striking. Maybe you can just share a little bit about what you meant by that because I think it paints a little bit of a picture, you know, for folks to understand a little bit about you know, kind of, you know, what America can be like and what it's like growing up in in in parts of the US. Draymond Green (00:56:11): Well, number 1, I wanna point out that I told all the the first day we went into lockdown, we also go to Cowboys. No one listened to me. Speaker 8 (00:56:19): It was a good call. It was a good call. You were right. We should all go word a call. Draymond Green (00:56:24): Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. But when when I said that in the group chat, what I said what I said in the group chat was, honestly, I was in my condo in San is if I live in a high rise. Great view of the main bridge. Great view of the water. You see all of San Francisco, South San Francisco everywhere. And and I said to the group chat, after a few weeks of lockdown, I said this, you know, guys, I have to be quite frank with you, This feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. Yeah. And what and what I mean by that, I said, this feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw. Mission, the only difference is I know where my next I know where my next mail is coming from. Yeah. You know, and I'm I'm in a much better place living space than I was, but this was no different. We're unlocked in. I can't go anywhere. That was me growing up inside of Michigan. in, couldn't go anywhere, didn't know that there was a world that existed outside of Saginaw, Michigan, and basketball was able to take me different places. But I I didn't know anything existed, and nothing seemed accessible to a young black kid growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. So once I was once I was then locked in the house, along with everyone else in the world, it just took me back to a slice of, wow. Nothing else is is so accessible to me. This was exactly what it was when I was growing up as a two year old. Like, nothing was accessible to us. We didn't have anything. Speaker 8 (00:57:54): Yeah. Draymond Green (00:57:54): That's how And so when we wanted to lock down, like, I felt right at home. I felt like the kid growing up inside of her again. Nothing was accessible to me. David Friedberg (00:58:05): But it's such a poignant point, Draymond, because so many people don't you you know, people don't have that experience, but hearing you say that it provides perspective that there are people living that today. And it's not just about a COVID lockdown, but it's about a different world. that we don't get to see. So I really appreciated you sharing that. I I it honestly was very poignant and and kinda struck a nerve with me when he said it. Draymond Green (00:58:28): Absolutely. I think, you know, one one thing I another thing I said in the Chamath, and I am included. We we all got got a chance to see what it felt like. to be those people. You know, obviously -- Right. Speaker 1 (00:58:41): -- Draymond Green (00:58:41): I lived that life growing up. But once you're removed from it, you're removed from it. Right? Like, I you know, you try not to never forget, but let's let's be frank. You know, Shamab and Shamab, you you grew up with nothing coming from India and or Sri Lanka and going to Kelly, you had nothing. You understand. And, you know, we all understand from a different perspective, but there are still people currently that live that live that life today. Speaker 8 (00:59:06): Can I tell you Speaker 1 (00:59:07): -- -- Draymond Green (00:59:07): all of us a glimpse of what those people go through on a daily basis? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:59:11): The one the one thing about this pandemic is that I've had these moments day where, like, I actually now am a little bit more connected to my past. I did this I did this podcast with this guy, Patrick O'Shaughnessy, and he ends every podcast and he says, you know, what is the kindest thing that some somebody has done to you? And I had pushed this memory down into the fucking recesses of my mind except in this last year, I've remembered all these kindnesses because I've I've now I've I've these are the moments where I felt the most insecure, and I And I told the story about this kid who, you know, when I was like 11 or 12, he was 8. So he was in my sister's class And their family gave us a mattress 2 mattresses and some clothes, you know, some plates and like a frying pan and a pot literally. when we got refugee status. And when I said it on the thing, I started bawling, and then I kinda collected myself, And then -- I'm Jason Calacanis (01:00:10): getting a little clamped even hearing you talk about it, man. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:00:13): Well, in the next the next morning, Nat said, how did it go? And I told her and I exploded and I was crying and crying and crying and crying. And to your point, like, it is so easy to forget where you come from, but it's also easy to forget that there's a simple fucking externality. In this case, it's a It's a virus you can't see that gets trans and it makes us all the same in one fell swoop and one nanosecond. And if that doesn't make you sort of, like, empathetic to everybody. Not nothing will. But that's one silver lining in this whole fucking debacle is it's an opportunity for for for a lot of folks to reconnect with their own self, David Friedberg (01:00:56): you know, Draymond Green (01:00:57): and be a better Absolutely. Jason Calacanis (01:00:59): There's something you you paused on, Draymond, during the pandemic when you weren't playing, and you guys to see with the injuries and everything, didn't you weren't in the bubble, so you had a lot of time to be with yourself Did you have any, like, during this great pause? You know, I don't know, revelations about yourself, your career, and what you wanna do in the second half of your career? Because let's be honest. I mean, the run the Warriors has had has been transcendent. I mean, You guys have checked off every box. You personally have checked off every box, especially for a guy who was drafted in the 2nd round to be champion and, like, the way you've developed and the leadership. I mean, everybody in the league knows when you're on the court, that's the team, and you have that leadership, the ability to see the floor and direct the offense, direct the defense. Did you come up with anything? We said this is what I want out of the future my life because we saw you dabble with you know, TNT and the desk, and you killed it. We we've seen you mic'd up. We see you coaching now. It seems like there's a 2.0 Draymond like, maybe a little evolution here of your thinking about maybe the 3rd act and the second half of your NBA career on the court? Draymond Green (01:02:06): You know, I had a lot of time to really see a reflection you know, I grew a lot in my personal relationships, which I think was important. You know, and and I think I also grew grew a lot as as a business professional as well. And speaking of you know, the the TNT stuff. And I was I think, you know, we've kinda always or I've kinda always heard Alright, man. When you when you finish playing, you'll have a great career in TV. But the reality is is, you know, we we've seen some players you know, that were really good players to get up there and not be very, you know, be very good sitting at the desk or or, you know, color, commentating the game. And and so it's not as easy as most people think it is. People think just because you play basketball, a, that you know basketball, and then b, that you're gonna help. You you're gonna be able to translate or or help give everyone else an understanding of what exactly it is that you see. And and so getting up there and actually being able to do it and then the reception that I got, which people, you know, in in my mind, I've always said, I wanna be Tony Romo of the NBA Tony Romo is one of my favorite people to watch do color commentary because he makes it very simple for you to understand. he telling you Tony Romo sit there and call the plays out that a team is about to run just by seeing the formation, and they do exactly what he said they're about to do. it's the most incredible thing. And and speaking of which we were talking about earlier, which is the media, one of the things that pissed me off most about the game of basketball today is I can't turn on a sports talk show and actually learn about basketball. and that fucking pisses me off. All I can turn and talk to you about is it about bullshit. But the reality is when that We have so many people talking and and speaking about the game of basketball. They're doing no shit. Jason Calacanis (01:04:21): Right. Draymond Green (01:04:22): And so you you can't turn on the TV and learn. And so the one thing Chamath Palihapitiya (01:04:26): I'll say Speaker 1 (01:04:26): -- -- Draymond Green (01:04:26): I wanna bring to that world is I want to be able to teach the game of basketball. And then for people to then contact me, once I was sitting up there at the desk and inside on inside the NBA, and doing all of these different things to contact me and say, the way you break the game down makes it so easy to understand. That was a huge win for me, and it gave me a lot of whole wanna succeed more in that area. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:04:50): Well, I'll I'll I'll say something different, which is what what I see is, like, just an just an incredibly beautiful human being because, like, you're able to humanize that, but then you can go and speak on these other things. that's actually what we need more of. Because all of a sudden now, it's very hard to put people in a box, and it shows that we are all multifaceted. It's just that Sometimes we don't get the exposure. Meaning, like I would say, I have different facets of my personality because we've been friends for so long. and that's a gift you gave to me. You just said being in that group chat with us, which can be a cacophonyous fucking mess sometimes. Draymond Green (01:05:31): That group Speaker 8 (01:05:32): chat should that group chat never never to be published. Never never published. Speaker 1 (01:05:36): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:05:36): published. Signal. But but the point is, like and this goes back to this first thing. Like, we can now really, like, be authentic and show all these different facets of our self, and it's just like, to me, that's what's really important because then people see that there is more than, you know, like like, the the the most the best rebuttal to, like, that whole shut up and dribble, which was so fucking offensive, is literally for you to be great at basketball, great at broadcasting, great as a, you know, social you know, person who can comment on the social times of our moment, great businessman, And then I'm just gonna put one thing out there right now. Eventually, great fucking politician because this is like, now you wanna talk about somebody no. No. But you wanna talk somebody who can galvanize interest and -- There's an even governor -- Yeah. -- elected someone out Speaker 8 (01:06:23): Trey Monet. Someone on someone on our podcast longer running apparently. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:26): Guys, guys, I'm I'm gonna make a prediction that our bestie will be the governor of chicken or the governor of California Speaker 1 (01:06:34): -- David Friedberg (01:06:34): Love it. Speaker 1 (01:06:35): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:35): before before the time he's fifty. Love it. David Friedberg (01:06:37): There you go. Draymond Green (01:06:38): Thank you. I I appreciate that. Maybe I mean, You know, I love the state of Michigan that's home, you know, but I I think California will be home for me for the rest of my life. So Yeah. As we come for you. Speaker 8 (01:06:50): Rick calling you some. Jason Calacanis (01:06:51): Hey, Draymond. Let me ask you a question. You're you're on Twitter. I understand you have a Twitter handle. Sometimes you check it out. Did you see Chemott's -- Shirt. Speaker 1 (01:07:01): -- Jason Calacanis (01:07:01): picture with the shirt off? And -- Dated, did you Speaker 8 (01:07:04): see the 3rd track? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:05): Did you see a Taylor Truelock? Tell the truth. Draymond Green (01:07:08): I mean Speaker 1 (01:07:09): -- David Friedberg (01:07:09): He looked away. Draymond Green (01:07:10): If we all know Samaka, I'm sorry. He probably sent it to the fucking group chat. Speaker 8 (01:07:16): He's snuck the outtaste. Draymond Green (01:07:17): I'm tired of what what are all of us to say. Yeah. You look fucking great. I definitely saw the picture. David Sacks (01:07:26): Actually, I I I I'm the one who posted it to the to the group chat. Speaker 8 (01:07:30): No. That's that's posted in Speaker 1 (01:07:31): -- David Sacks (01:07:31): And I my comment My comment my comment was Shamoff Kardashian, question mark. Draymond Green (01:07:41): because you put you David Sacks (01:07:42): put the camera in front of your face. You were like, you you the it it looked like this. It was like a good thing like Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:48): That that day they taught me how to do this. He's the Speaker 10 (01:07:51): Oh, wait. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Jason Calacanis (01:07:55): Stop a no fault. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:55): Guys, listen. We are we're we're nearing the end of our podcast, Jason. Do you wanna tell Day what we're gonna do? Jason Calacanis (01:08:03): Okay. So some people have given some reviews or just feedback on the pod, on the besties, maybe even you, Draymond, And so we thought it would be incredibly uncomfortable and funny for us to read some of these. So Sachs, why don't you kick us off with Speaker 1 (01:08:21): 1? David Sacks (01:08:21): The well, there's a really good pie chart here, which Nick Nick And Show, which shows all in pod talk time. And it's basically mostly Shamoff and then Jason with with both David filling like a tiny little piece. And so it's 1 third The majority of it is Chamath and Jason talking over each Speaker 8 (01:08:41): other. It's like that's a pot. David Sacks (01:08:44): Bordie Elon Musk posted that, I guess. David Friedberg (01:08:46): Yeah. Alright. Jason Calacanis (01:08:46): Well, here's one from Brooklyn gal 212 on Saks. 1 star review. Saks, go ahead and read this 1 star review from Brooklyn gal Speaker 1 (01:08:53): 212. David Sacks (01:08:54): Yeah. She says that David Sacks runs every conversation on this call. Your period. Jason Calacanis (01:08:59): You've got a period. Alright. Here's one about Chamath. Shamatha. Speaker 8 (01:09:03): This is one you're at. Yeah. I'll read this one. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:09:05): Okay. It's from Howard Axel Rowark -- Okay. -- with a couple. It could with the with the pill, it says every time Chamath does something to make me like him, he does two things to make me hate his It's Speaker 8 (01:09:20): I think it looks like we could all relate to that one. Draymond Green (01:09:24): And it sounds like me and my player career. Everyone fucking hates me, man. It's crazy. David Friedberg (01:09:32): Draymond, I will tell you when when I first when I first thought about putting tweet out for, like, the first time. You were the one who said, man, everyone's gonna talk shit, but forget the haters. Like, that's just the way it goes when you start Speaker 1 (01:09:42): -- Draymond Green (01:09:42): Oh, yeah. Fuck, Darren. Jason Calacanis (01:09:43): Yeah. Fuck the head or so. Alright. Here's one for -- Absolutely. Speaker 1 (01:09:45): -- Speaker 8 (01:09:45): this is Jason Calacanis (01:09:46): a a super fan Aaron sent this one into the email. Jason, at this point, I fully believe you have bought, laminated, and framed, Kathy referenced severed trumpet picture. How many gallons of seamings spilled by the women? Pikin was even incorporated. Oh, my Lord. Too much. Twitter offered 2 blue Chuck marks. You'd have 3. Your Xellatry has made even Bill Mar blush and the other bestie cringe when you can't take even a slight ribbing. It's so bad now. The besties have started their own side chat without you. At your funeral, The besties will show up not out of respect for you, but for your family. Speaker 8 (01:10:20): Oh my god. My lord. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:24): Signed Jacklyn Sachs. No comment. No idea. Jason Calacanis (01:10:29): Oh my lord. Okay, Dave. You're yours. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:31): You're his Speaker 8 (01:10:32): birthday. Oh, wait. Wait. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:33): I need to do this hot take. Hot take. Ready? The hot take. Jason Calacanis (01:10:36): Hot takes. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:37): Not deeply researched. 3 stars. Jason and Chamath make good points. But the other 2 are such whiny nerds, one of whom is clearly right wing, wanna be vanilla isis Jesus. Speaker 8 (01:10:53): Oh my lord. Draymond Green (01:10:54): So real. Speaker 1 (01:10:54): -- Jason Calacanis (01:10:54): just call you a terrorist? Oh my lord. David Sacks (01:10:58): I think think he's referring to Friedberg. Jason Calacanis (01:11:02): Which David? David Sacks (01:11:03): Definitely not me. Definitely not me. Jason Calacanis (01:11:05): We won't have the same Oh, here Speaker 8 (01:11:06): is it. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:11:06): Jason, you wanna read the next one? This is evil Jason. Jason Calacanis (01:11:09): Evil Jason. Okay. Here we go. This is from Adam Keem. He posted this on January 30th. So not long ago, he gives me a full one star. which I think one star is, like, number 1. Right? 5 stars is 5th place. 1st star is one place. Jason Calacanis is a monster. David Sacks (01:11:25): Monster. Not Speaker 8 (01:11:25): monster. Monster monster. Jason Calacanis (01:11:27): Wow. After listening to Jason on the latest podcast, I am floored, period. his personal tax and his complete support of the manipulators in our market should tell you something. This guy is evil. Oh. David Friedberg (01:11:39): What's the move on? -- mom. David is trash. That is all. Which David? David Sacks (01:11:44): Friedberg. Always Freiberg. David Friedberg (01:11:46): Always Freiberg. Oh, no. Here's here's the one I'll read. If Metromile and or becoming new head of USA vaccination doesn't work out for David Friedberg. He could still have an amazing career as a Kermit the frog voice actor. Fuck her. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:01): Oh, here we go. Here's here's Marcus Aurelius, a Speaker 1 (01:12:04): 13367156 Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:07): saying to me, stop sniffing your own farts. What the fuck does that? Jason Calacanis (01:12:14): It means that you are so enamored with yourself, Chamath, that you think your farts are fragrant. Oh my god. Alright. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:21): Okay. I'm gonna read I'm gonna read a Draymond Green mean Speaker 8 (01:12:24): for you. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:24): There you go. Oh, no. Draymond Green (01:12:26): Draymond Green, shoot like he's sitting down in a chair. Fuck all. Speaker 8 (01:12:34): God, my god. Read the next one. David Friedberg (01:12:36): Read the next one. Jason Calacanis (01:12:37): Oh, man. -- your screens. Draymond Green (01:12:40): This is for Sugar Lump Blump. Sugar, wouldn't it Speaker 1 (01:12:44): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:44): Sugar Lump Blump? Draymond Green (01:12:46): Sugar Lump Blump. Draymond Green is so attractive to to me. I don't know why because he's legally unbelievable. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:55): Wait a second. Did she met you? Jason Calacanis (01:12:57): I think she's running around into the PMs and nagging. You at the same time? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:00): You know, the brutal by the way, Speaker 8 (01:13:01): the brutal thing about that. The way the brutal thing about that. The brutal thing about Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:05): that is is not not one sent to me. She's like, man, Draymond Green is really attractive. I said, what the fuck are you talking about? I said, I am so much better looking than Draymond Green. He'll never get over that Draymond. Speaker 8 (01:13:18): He'll keep talking about that for you. He'll never get over that. It's been Jason Calacanis (01:13:21): a year. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:21): I'm still tilted. Jason Calacanis (01:13:22): Let's not get crazy. Okay? Your solid seven's on a podcast full of fives. Take it Draymond Green (01:13:26): easy. Did Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:29): they read Gold Bluff gus. Draymond Green (01:13:32): Gold bluffs gus. Draymond Green still shoots like he got the door that he's worn back. Speaker 8 (01:13:42): brittle. We invite Draymond we invite Draymond on this nice podcast. Don't even tell him. David Friedberg (01:13:47): Have him roast himself. This is he's never coming back. Draymond Green (01:13:51): God bless the guts. Those thoughts are not going in, buddy. David Sacks (01:13:56): Oh my god. Jason Calacanis (01:13:57): This is just it's so hard. Speaker 8 (01:13:59): It's so hardcore. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:00): Oh my god. Speaker 8 (01:14:01): was really fun then. Great, man. David Friedberg (01:14:02): That was really fun to have you on. Draymond Green (01:14:03): Thanks for having fun. I appreciate it. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:05): Thank you, brother. Love you, guys. I love all of you. Hey. I love you. Draymond Green (01:14:09): wait. I also appreciate you fucking nurse for not talking circles around around me on this podcast. Leave that for a chat. Alright. Thank you. I'll be a big boy. Alright. I love it. No. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:20): We appreciate you, Raymonde, guys. Speaker 8 (01:14:21): Love you, besties. Jason Calacanis (01:14:23): I love you besties. Draymond Green (01:14:25): we'll let your winners ride. Jason Calacanis (01:14:28): Rainman, David Saffens. I'm going home. Draymond Green (01:14:33): And it said -- We opened sits Speaker 4 (01:14:34): to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with it. Draymond Green (01:14:41): like, white hair when they're trying. Besties are gone. Oh, thirteen. David Friedberg (01:14:48): That is funny on dogs thinking that I was driveway checks. Speaker 4 (01:14:56): We should all just get a room and just have a be cute, George, because they're all these useless. It's like this, like, sexual tension that we just need to release somehow. Speaker 8 (01:15:04): What? You're the b p What? You're happy to hear her feet. Sweat. We Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:09): need to get mercies are back.