反思国会山骚乱，兼谈佐治亚决选与疫苗分发

Speaker 1 (00:00:00): I'm going all in. Wake your homey. Wake your homey. Wear your 50s are packed. I'm doing all this. We'll let your winners Jason Calacanis (00:00:11): ride. Rainman, David Sachs. Speaker 3 (00:00:18): We open source it to the fans, and they've just gone crazy lately. Jason Calacanis (00:00:22): Love you. besties Speaker 1 (00:00:26): are David Friedberg (00:00:34): my dog taking it out this year driveway. David Sacks (00:00:38): We Speaker 6 (00:00:41): should all just get a room and just have one be huge or if you could their office is just it's like it's like sexual friendship that we just need to release ourselves. David Friedberg (00:00:49): What? You're the big bee. What? Your feet. What? Jason Calacanis (00:00:54): Where did you get Murphy's artifact? Speaker 1 (00:00:56): I'm doing all. Jason Calacanis (00:01:06): Alright. And we're back, and thank you to young Spielberg with the all in 1.5 extended edition remix were going all in. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:17): That was -- Thank you Jason Calacanis (00:01:17): to the super fans. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:19): That was really incredible, actually. Jason Calacanis (00:01:20): We're back. David Sacks (00:01:20): I gotta say. Jason Calacanis (00:01:21): We're back. Speaker 1 (00:01:21): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:21): Justin Bieber. Jason Calacanis (00:01:23): Yeah. Shout out young Spielberg with us, the dictator, Chamath Palihapitiya. The rain man himself, David Sacks, is definitely an excellent driver in his dad that's some drive in the driveway. And the queen of Kinois. Spectacular David Friedberg is with us We did an emergency pod. We just had all agreed. We're taking a nice break. Nothing's gonna happen over the new year. This is the down period. And 2021 is gonna be delightful and simple, and then all hell breaks loose. We could start with the vaccine. We could start with the capital. We could start with Georgia. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:01:59): we have to start we have to start we have to start with the capital. Jason Calacanis (00:02:02): We have to start with the capital. Alright. So let me just run through the series of events that occurred here. there's a certification process, correct Saks that goes on, where the electoral college gets counted. And somewhere at 10 AM, Trump had a rally of thousands of supporters. You were not there, David. Correct? You were not at David Friedberg (00:02:23): this rally? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:23): He was in quarter, quarter, Miami. Speaker 1 (00:02:25): Right. Jason Calacanis (00:02:27): I think he's in the Miami Hilton on Pennsylvania Avenue right now that he put up that fake Miami background. But the truth is, let's be honest here, Trump came out at 10 AM and had a rally. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:41): Jason, can we just take his thought back for a second? Okay. Doesn't David Sachs look like Elliott Gould in Ocean's 11 right now? I'm kinda just so Elliott Gould. Jason Calacanis (00:02:52): He is a Silver Fox. And are you I mean, you were very public about being in Miami over the New Year. You took your talents to Miami, and I we see this background. So we can assume the dictators in his pool house poker room. We know that Friedberg in a Ritz Carlton somewhere based on the furniture. He's in his Ritz Carlton office. And Saxx, based on your background, are you in Miami right now? David Sacks (00:03:17): Yeah. Are you still there? Speaker 1 (00:03:18): I I David Sacks (00:03:18): still I'm still I'm still here. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:03:20): Okay. But, David, did you meet Jason Calacanis (00:03:21): in the mayor or not? David Sacks (00:03:23): I I haven't I I actually met him. I did meet him. I went to, like, a tech event the other night, and he was there. So Were you wearing Chamath Palihapitiya (00:03:31): masks at the tech event? Are you wearing a mask mask David Sacks (00:03:33): or a mask? It was there there were, like, masks in no. No. No. I'll tell you. There were masks indoors, and then there was like COVID testing inside, and then you could graduate to the outdoor patio part where people generally weren't wearing masks. Jason Calacanis (00:03:48): So were you in conversations with people with no masks on? Is that what you're saying at this Speaker 1 (00:03:53): -- Yeah. David Sacks (00:03:53): But, you know, everyone's been, like, COVID tested, like, a zillion times. and it was outdoors. And, you know, I'm willing to meet with people outdoors. You know, I generally don't do it indoors, but I'm I'm Jason Calacanis (00:04:05): I've I've David Sacks (00:04:05): I've said that's my policy starting several months ago. David Friedberg (00:04:08): Did we rewind to April with that photo of Zach? Do we have it where he was in the ski and the Jason Calacanis (00:04:14): goggles and the helmet and, David Friedberg (00:04:15): like, the vinyl leather suit and, like, how things have changed? He's like, I'll go to Miami and have a chat with someone 1. Yeah. Yeah. Look. David Sacks (00:04:22): You you could you could you you you could definitely do how it started and how it's going. split photo for it. But but look. David Friedberg (00:04:30): Ask the song. -- banana split with someone. Like, you know, like Speaker 1 (00:04:34): -- Jason Calacanis (00:04:34): Well, literally, on eBay, Alibaba buying ventilators Speaker 1 (00:04:38): -- Right. -- Jason Calacanis (00:04:39): for his home triage center. David Sacks (00:04:43): Well, I mean, we we had people from the WHO saying in March that the, you know, that the case fee the infection fatality rate was like Speaker 1 (00:04:50): 7%. David Sacks (00:04:51): You know? And the two big things we learned after that were number one that there was a huge distribution by age. Right? And so somebody under 50 without comorbidities had a much, much, much lower risk. And then also the thing we learned is that the there's there's maybe a 10 x difference between the infection fatality rate and the case fatality rate. I mean, you guys know all this. Yeah. And so so at once we learned those things, I mean, I you you know, I think a rational person takes things like that into account, I changed my policy with respect to COVID. You know? And and now especially that we have you know, easy access to tests which weren't available. You can get tested before going into a event. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:05:32): I have a question to add on to that. do you own a fur, chewbacca outfit? And were were you in Washington Jason Calacanis (00:05:42): to see us? With more pick David Friedberg (00:05:44): a lot with more paint on your nipples. Do you have a full body? Do you have a neck to waste tattoo? Jason Calacanis (00:05:52): Are you standing behind a podium? David Sacks (00:05:54): Let me hide the the Viking horns that I've got staffed away here. Jason Calacanis (00:05:58): Alright. Listen. There was a great David Sacks (00:06:00): there was a -- Can David Friedberg (00:06:00): can we title can we title today's event, National Lampoon Siege of the Capitol. I mean, it was like animal house, like, you know Yeah. David Sacks (00:06:08): There was a great there was a great tweet by somebody saying this was this was, like, the storming of their best deal as perpetrated by the cast of animal house. Jason Calacanis (00:06:17): Right. Totally. David Sacks (00:06:18): And there and there was another there's another great tweet saying, the capital now appears to be under the control of a man in a Viking mass. David Friedberg (00:06:28): The best one the best one was Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:30): I have lost all respect for Nicholas Cage's ability to steal the US constitution. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:06:35): Exactly. Yeah. Whatever copies left So let's just go through the chain of events here. And it was it was absolutely surreal because Trump literally went out to a a mob of people and said, I want you to march down Pennsylvania Avenue and show the GOP what it takes to have courage, etcetera. Mike Pence apparently told Trump that he was not gonna go to bat for him in this serum only a process of counting the votes. And lo and behold, you're watching this you know, the objections going on to the electoral account, and you see the secret service come rushing in. And it becomes a you know, very serious situation. And when you watch some of the videos, it is truly terrorizing that thousands of people overwhelm the police And I guess I wanna start with people's opinion on Trump's culpability in insiding what was very dangerous behavior for people are dead. So we you know, while we're joking about the cause play outfits, a woman who was an art in Trump supporter who is a vet who did four tours from what I've read. And I shared the video with you before, literally, you know, as they broke into the building, was trying to breach another area of the building and she's climbing through a window and gets shot apparently by the secret service or the police and dies. And so it's all fun and games until four people are dead. And now somebody's lost their wife daughter Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:12): No. But Jason Jason, I mean, there there could have been 400 dead. There could have been 4000 dead. Jason Calacanis (00:08:17): Yeah. I mean, this could have become a shootout at the okay can't understand why the police showed the restraint they did. I mean, when you see them getting I don't know if you saw the 1 -- They didn't Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:26): they didn't show restraint, Jason. There was no police. When you look at the amount of security, that's typically there and has been there for other situations. And then you compare it to the amount of security Knowing for a month and a half that this was coming, it's it just doesn't make any sense to me. So I'm a little I'm a little dumbfounded that you know, you couldn't have seen this Facebook group called, you know, hashtag storm the capital, which had tens of thousands maybe 100 of 1000 of members in there. plotting and scheming, selling merchandise called Storm The Capital. You know, these guys were wearing printed sweatshirts that they had time to make. and nobody knew about it and nobody thought to reinforce the security and barricaded and make sure that you couldn't go from the protest site to the I mean, I I just seems like there's some level of complicity that needs to get found out here. David Friedberg (00:09:22): But there was a there was an interview I saw with an ex DC police guy who said that I think folks were told to tamper down The police forces were told to tamper down on managing crowds and protests and riots following the controversy associated with BLM a few months ago. and spraying folks with pepper spray and water and all the physical techniques that were used were so outraging that that there was just more of a systemic concern about being too aggressive with protesters. And as a result, they went too far the other way. It's it's it's not unreasonable. Jason Calacanis (00:09:59): It just happens to be Friedberg that when black people protested and brown people, they got the tear gas and beaten with batons. And then when the white people storm the the the capital in the same area, they got walked down the steps and escorted out with a stern warning to not do it again. I mean, this is hypocritical and insane. David Sacks (00:10:24): I I I don't know why you have to go there, particularly. It it it looked to me like what happened is that the Capitol Hill Police simply got completely overwhelmed. Mhmm. You look at these, you know, giant this is a a rally on the mall that turned into a mob. Well, first, it kinda turned into a tailgater, then it turned into a mob, and then it turned into an insurrection. It kind of stumbled forward into progressive phases of Speaker 1 (00:10:51): -- David Sacks (00:10:52): Superidity. -- the stupidity and disaster. But it's it looked to me like the Capitol Hill Police simply got overwhelmed. They they obviously were unprepared. They were surprised, I think, by this. And I saw video of tons of tear gas being used. I saw people getting tear gas like crazy, and I think there was reports this morning on Twitter that the whole area in front of the capital there was covered in that light film that remains after tear gassing. So I don't think they were really pulling punches too much. And I also think that that there will be prosecutions. I think that These people were were captured on video. There's a lot of talk on Twitter. And everybody is in favor of finding out who they are applying facial recognition. And bringing charges. So I think there will be a lot of charges unlike, let's say, the the BLM process this summer. I don't remember anybody getting charged based on video of people Friedberg or looting. And then I think, you know, the the the the final difference actually with the BLM protest is that if you've watched Fox News at all in the last twenty 4 hours, the condemnation of what of the storming of the capital of what happened has been across the board. Both right and left, everybody across the political spectrum has condemned it. Nobody is apologizing for it. Nobody on the right is looking for root causes to explain the reasons why it happened. Everybody is just condemning it and saying that it should never have happened. And the people who did it should be prosecuted. And so I don't see any kid gloves here being used you know, either physically or recorded. Jason Calacanis (00:12:29): of Saxx is when you see officers being chased up the steps and or taking selfies know, which is one instance. I don't wanna just say that's the only indicative thing. But when people are breaking through windows and just kind of being let go, I mean, they were obviously overwhelmed, surprised more people didn't get shot. Chomov. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:48): David. Let's just tackle this Jason Calacanis (00:12:50): head on in terms of the race issue. But I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:52): have a well, I have a I have a question for David. Before I make my statement, David -- Okay. Speaker 1 (00:12:56): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:56): do you think that if this were black and brown people storming the capital Would there have been more or less than 4 deaths? David Sacks (00:13:07): Honestly, I think it would have been the same. I just Jason Calacanis (00:13:10): disagree. Yeah. I disagree. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:12): I I really disagree. And I'll tell you why. I think you have the best of intentions wanting to think that way, but here's the way I see it. I see a president that basically instigated a group of people who are fundamentally disenfranchised. Let's face Like, there are there are a lot of very, very reasonable Republicans and a lot of very reasonable Democrats. The fringes of both parties are functionally, mentally retarded. We know this. Okay? And so what you see are extreme on both sides who are just completely lost and looking for any excuse. And so you have a president in the tail end of his presidency, an anonymous presidency, basically called him out. Nobody who actually had a job or anything to do could show up. Right? So you had all these people show up. Jason Calacanis (00:14:01): It's a Wednesday. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:14:02): It's a Wednesday during the day. I mean and what do you think happens? They're there. They're all frothed up. You know? Eric Trump frothing them up, Donald Trump junior frothing them up, Trump frothing them up, Giuliani frothing them up, and all of a sudden, as you said, stumbling into degrees of of craziness and stupidity to storm the capital. And I just think to myself how could a president instigate this kind of action? Number 1. The second thing I think about is when black athletes peacefully protested something that they had the fundamental constitutional right to protest In the president's eyes, they were sons of bitches. White people that stormed the fucking capital, The people's house Speaker 1 (00:14:51): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:14:52): Yep. -- were called patriots by the president's daughter, and then told and then we're told that they were loved by the president himself. To me, it's just an enormously stark contrast of a double standard. I think that beyond the persecutions of the people, I actually feel very bad for the people that storm the capital. I feel like these are folks that are on the fringes who just need a vessel and Trump is a vessel, and then he instigate them and runs away. You know what I mean? He's a coward. Jason Calacanis (00:15:23): He's lost. And these are lost people. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:15:25): Yeah. -- that these guys commit the crime, and now they're gonna go to jail. I feel like the the culpability has to go all the way back to Trump, to Holly, to cruise. These guys are the those are the real scumbags in all of this. Jason Calacanis (00:15:38): Freeburg, what are what are your thoughts on this and then I'll go back to Saks and let him respond? David Friedberg (00:15:45): Yeah. I don't I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if this was a black lives matter and and and it was black people involved or brown people involved in in the same sorts of activities you saw yesterday that you would not see more shootings. I I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take obviously, I think there's this other circumstance, which is that event preceding this one. As I mentioned, I I saw an interview with a DC police former police director of the police or some I forgot what his title was, where he highlighted that, you know, folks were kind of instructed to stand down following the BLM controversies. And so I think that's also kind of a reasonable point of view. And it's kinda -- What about Jason Calacanis (00:16:28): the president's culpability? I mean, I think that's one issue that's gonna have to be addressed post. And I think we have to figure out what life post Trump is gonna be like because this is a level of chaos that nobody, to Saks's point, all people condemned. It's a yeah. David Friedberg (00:16:44): There's a there's a there's a theory which actually takes its origin from from Hitler where Hitler used this term the big lie. And, you know, the theory is that you can create political propaganda by saying something that's so outrageous. It is so improbable that people say there's no way this thing keeps getting said over and over unless it's actually real. And this is sort of like the QAnon pedophile ring in the pizzeria or the fact that the election was stolen from you. it is such an outrageous statement that that it seems to people that it only has to be true. because it is it is such an insane thing. And if it is, it's so insane, and I am so excited by this thing. So this is kind of a you know, acknowledged as being a, you know, a political propaganda technique that that goes back a long time. By the way, Hitler used it as a way to to use it as almost like a double bluff to blame the Jews in in Germany, which was you know, an unfortunate kind of origin of of the term, but but the term is used a lot now in saying, like, these sorts of events are ridiculous. Now what's gonna happen going forward I I don't think big lies go away. You can try and mute them on Twitter and mute them on Facebook or mute them on Reddit, but whether it's queuing on or whatever is next, This is becoming kind of a standard form now because of the way media is distributed. Anyone can say a big lie, and it gets a a lot of listeners. And and Trump is totally culpable for that He made some shit up. He made a bunch of claims. I mean, if you if you guys haven't seen Lindsay Graham speak yesterday, it is absolutely worth watching that he gave late late last night. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:18:23): I saw it. I saw it. David Friedberg (00:18:24): And he's like he's like, I asked for the for the show me the the 8 the Speaker 1 (00:18:27): 10 David Friedberg (00:18:28): give me ten people that claim that they voted and they were under 18. He's like, they gave you one. give me anyone that that was in prison or died, and they gave me 0. And he's like, goes on and on for a couple minutes about how none of what was said about what happened in the election was true, and it was all false. And he's like, this is all just not true. And so I think Trump is culpable for creating a falsehood and and, you know, having a megaphone and, you know, there are certainly -- What about the inciting Jason Calacanis (00:18:55): of violence? That is, I think, where the rubber's gonna meet the road. Trump's gonna be out of office in 2 weeks or less, one way or the other. Do you and let me just take it to Saks. Saks, I wanna give you the time to respond to the the issue of the double standard in terms of race and BLM. And then also, do you, Saks, if you're on Biden's team coming in, do you advise that you prosecute Trump or investigate Trump for this insurrection? Yes or no? David Sacks (00:19:26): Okay. So just just to tie off on the the BLM issue. I I just, you know, I just, fundamentally, don't think that race is the issue here. Chamath, look, I I don't know at the end of the day what the fatalities would have been if it had been a BLM protest that that went awry. But I will stick to what I said before, which is I predict that you will see more prosecutions come out of this of the people who are involved. I'm talking about the people who storm the than we saw from all the the BLM protests over the summer. I mean, I don't remember any prosecutions coming out of videotape of people being caught recorded looting and writing. And I predict you will see more here. And, again, I think another difference again, to to the extent there's a double standard, You know, I remember a lot of left wing news networks calling the the writing and looting the summer, peaceful protest, which say clearly we're not. You even had a book called In Defensive Looting. And I don't hear anybody defending the storming of the capital. Nobody on the right. So to look, to the extent there's a double standard, I don't know that it accrues to the the BLM side of this. But, look, I think that's kind of beside the point and not not the real issue here. I mean, Jason, to your question of, is Trump responsible? Yes. I mean, clearly. Speaker 1 (00:20:39): 100%. 100%. David Sacks (00:20:41): Yes. Because He he is the one who who who put forth this theory that the election was stolen and was constantly repeating it for the last 2 months. 2 months ago, right after the election, there was an article published in the spectator called deplorables Don't Riot. It was actually a pretty good opend. You know, it was written by a conservative. And the conservatives point was that, you know, all these windows and shops have been boarded up in anticipation of potential writing, eluding with the election. And all these conservatives are saying, well, who's do you know, who are they afraid of? You know, not not us, not the MAGA folks. Well, and the theory was deplorables don't don't riot. And and and and the right was was proud of that 2 months ago, and now we are seeing that well, no. The deplorables are writing. Why why is that? What what changed over the last 2 months? And what changed is the constant feeding to this group of people this idea, starting with Trump, but then perpetuate it by different right wing media organizations and other politicians who sort of were, you know, trying to curry favor with Trump. They were constantly pushing forward this idea that the election was stolen. So that these people on the mall who then ride in storm of the capital believe that the election was being stolen from them. So, you know, ultimately, that responsibility goes is is Trump. Jason Calacanis (00:21:59): So to be clear and reflecting back to you, you're saying Trump incited sedation. Is that the right word? David Sacks (00:22:07): Well, Jason Calacanis (00:22:08): sedition? David Sacks (00:22:10): Sedition doesn't seem like the wrong it doesn't seem like the exact right word to me. I mean -- A riot? Speaker 1 (00:22:14): -- David Sacks (00:22:14): it was it it was certainly a riot. Now Now did now look, I mean, you're talking about prosecuting a legal case. You know, if you wanna look at the legal standard for incitement, it has to be you know, provoking people to take an imminent lawless act. Did he Chamath Palihapitiya (00:22:29): pretty close? David Sacks (00:22:31): I think I think he load if you wanna see that this mob as a gun, I think he loaded the gun. He pointed it in a certain direction. But did he tell them to storm the capital No. Not specifically. I think, therefore, it'd be a very hard case to prosecute. But I think, you know, prosecuting him in a court of law is is sort of unnecessary and redundant. I mean, I think that in the eyes of the public, politically, he is I think most people see he's culpable. And I even think Is that the Jason Calacanis (00:22:57): end of his political career? David Sacks (00:22:59): I think he's I think he's disqualified himself from being a a candidate you know, at a national level again. I mean, if you look -- Okay. Again, you just go back 2 months ago. Look at how much has changed. 2 months ago, just in the day or 2 after the election, Trump had narrowly lost, but there was talk of him starting a new news network to rival Fox. There was talk about he could even be a a candidate again in in 2024. It was not off the table. I think now it's it's clearly off the table. And you've seen it's probably because of the Georgia runoffs, which which we should get to. But again, The Republican candidates, at least one of them, had won that election 2 months ago, and now they lost and that has a lot to do with Trump's antics in the meantime. of just feeding this constant, you know, lie about the stolen election. Jason Calacanis (00:23:47): Right. I mean, David Friedberg (00:23:47): I think there's a really important question about, you know sorry. But is it worth prosecuting Trump post fact, you know, does that do more harm or good for for the country as a whole? certainly, there'll be a lot of people that would get great satisfaction of putting Trump in prison, and a lot of people are calling for that. But we really do need to question the you know, the incredible divide in the nation and what's the best way to to heal the divide, the objective shouldn't be pursuing justice. It should be about moving forward. I'm not suggesting don't prosecute Trump, but I I I think that it's worth it's worthy of noting that, you know, there is another way of framing this whole thing, which is what's the best thing to do going forward. Though on the flip side, you could even make the case that one of the best things Joe Biden could do today or tomorrow is to announce a a federal election review commission to actually look into wrongdoings at the state level a bipartisan -- Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:24:42): A 100%. Yeah. I mean, just slam just slam down case anyway. David Friedberg (00:24:46): If Biden did that, and he, you know, he basically embrace the the the notion that a lot of folks are really angry about and said, I'm listening to you. I'm hearing you. Let me show you. And at the same time, they did not prosecute Trump and, you know, let him go go off into the distance and do his own thing. Maybe you start to kinda, you know, heal the wrist a little bit But right now, everyone's kind of inflamed, and there is this, like, how do we prosecute him? What do we do when he's you know, do you know, and we're we're just continuing to kinda escalate the the dialogue and and increase the risk. David Sacks (00:25:14): I I just yeah. So I look. I think prosecuting Trump at this point. First of all, legally, that might be a difficult case to prove because of the need to prove that the that he was trying to provoke an imminent loss action. You know, if he had been at the barricades, you know, pushing people forward. Yes. But so I think legally, it'd be a tough case. And I think it would be like you said, it'd be unnecessarily divisive and partisan. I don't know why we need to go there. I mean, at the end of the day, any politician's stock and trade is their credibility and popularity. And Trump has fundamentally Chamath the perception of him. I think even among the the right. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:25:53): I have a huge issue with this, and I'll tell you why. It's because the folks that are now going to go to jail were instigated by this guy. And the folks that were there in many ways were brought. They were cajoled. They were instigated to travel from groomed to travel there, to take the time out of their lives, to basically then get fed this rhetoric, and in a moment of just crazy mob like mentality to act out at the behest of the leader of the free world. There has to be a consequence not just to those people because they in many ways are not the person to prosecute. To the extent that you are gonna put some of these people in jail, which we look it looks like we're going to. And by the way, let's be honest, There is no inconceivable way that these people get charged with a misdemeanor. That's not gonna stand. Right? And the worst perpetrators of this when they get put in jail will get put in jail 5 to 10 years minimum. And so what are what are we gonna do when we look at ourselves in the eye and say, these poor Americans at the end of the day who were instigated by this guy, and he yet again gets off Scott free while hundreds of Americans who were basically in a peak of craziness fed by this guy, does something and goes to jail, and you have hundreds of lives and hundreds of families ruined. Even if we don't find a way to basically put Trump in jail for this, I can 100% guarantee you I will bet a million bucks that now the Southern District of New York gloves off. Every single state that can go after this guy gloves off, and to the extent that Joe Biden had any incentive to basically, like, let this go away at the federal level, gloves off. In my opinion, I really I really Jamal, let's say David Friedberg (00:27:45): let's let's say that folks do go after Trump. What does that do? If he gets put in jail or he, you know, gets there there's some criminal proceeding brought against him. What does that do to the Speaker 1 (00:27:55): 50% David Friedberg (00:27:55): of the nation that truly support him and truly care about him. I don't I don't -- Like like like the balance of justice versus unification, you know, I think we're talking actually Jason Calacanis (00:28:05): about 25 percent of the country fiber. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:28:07): I think I don't even think it David Friedberg (00:28:08): is. Right? Or whatever it is. Like, there's obviously a big voting block and a big block of the potential I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:28:14): think I think of the 70 million people that voted for Donald Trump, I think there are half of them who would equally vote for a normal centrist candidate. And -- Nikki Halle. -- didn't necessarily believe in Donald Trump. then I think there's the other 35,000,000. And I do think that there's a spectrum of those 35, and I think that you probably lost 10 or 15,000,000 of them after the events of yesterday where they just threw their hands up in the air and said, hey. Where were you? It would David Friedberg (00:28:45): really only inflamed 20,000,000 is what you're saying. Correct. Jason Calacanis (00:28:47): And I think you agree with Chamath on David Friedberg (00:28:49): that. Right. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:28:49): And Those 20,000,000 people are, you know, sad to say concentrated in about 10 states that don't functionally matter economically or otherwise. And so Speaker 1 (00:28:59): -- David Friedberg (00:28:59): The the balance of justice versus unification, certainly, it sounds like you're saying weighs heavily towards justice. Right? Like, more more folks will benefit from seeing him come to justice or what perceive justice than Speaker 1 (00:29:09): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:09): I think what it'll allow I think it'll allow the Republican party to reenter itself. I think that's better for politics. I think it's better for governance. It's better for America. I think it allows a lot of people to basically wake up out of this haze that they've been in in 4 years and say, wow. Wait a minute. enough. Like, I was on a really bad bender. I did a couple things I really regret, and -- Understood. -- I need to resenter myself. David Friedberg (00:29:32): How do you not find us turning into a tit for tat, Berlusconi, Italy, Brazil, Israel kind of phenomenon where, you know Speaker 1 (00:29:39): -- David Friedberg (00:29:40): Oh, than attacked and challenged and taken taken taken the court. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:29:43): The best tweet I saw on this was this woman tweeted out that the following. She said, When the Democrats lost in 2016, they knitted pink hats and donated to Planned Parenthood. David Sacks (00:29:56): No. They didn't. No. They didn't. They invented a ridiculous Russian conspiracy theory. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:30:01): They David. Jason Calacanis (00:30:02): They they that, like, ten people went to jail. David Sacks (00:30:03): The Russia hoax. The Russia hoax. No one went to jail hooks. Speaker 1 (00:30:06): No one David Sacks (00:30:06): went to Jason Calacanis (00:30:07): they they were the Russians were obviously trying to Speaker 3 (00:30:09): help you. Speaker 1 (00:30:09): -- David Sacks (00:30:10): the last person you're like the last person who still believes in this. Jason Calacanis (00:30:12): Well, listen. I still believe that they tried, and I still believe I don't know that they seated, but I think David Sacks (00:30:17): they tried. Mueller Mueller spent 2 years investigating. This tens of 1,000,000 of dollars, 25 FBI and Speaker 1 (00:30:22): -- Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:30:22): Those are all those are all GOP talking points. The fact is Manafort went to jail and Speaker 1 (00:30:27): -- David Sacks (00:30:27): Something completely unrelated. These guys were all -- -- must be the last person who still believes that Trump won in 2000 16 because the Russia interference. Speaker 1 (00:30:35): -- Jason Calacanis (00:30:35): that they I think he asked the Ukraine for help, and I think he asked the Russian for help, and I think that he would have gladly accepted the help. Now is it it was it a a conspiracy like in the Frank? David Sacks (00:30:47): No. It wasn't a conspiracy. We didn't even Speaker 1 (00:30:48): -- Jason Calacanis (00:30:48): You could never know if it affected it, but Speaker 1 (00:30:49): -- David Sacks (00:30:50): It did. -- this is Jason Calacanis (00:30:50): the problem with your Russia talking point is that you're trying to just say because he didn't get prosecuted, which he's probably not gonna get prosecuted for this either. The guy is a serial offender. Okay? And they were trying to get information from WikiLeaks, and they were trying to get the the hacks. And so I don't know why you can so clearly see what he's doing, David, when he incites this violence, and then you don't see that he would he has no moral backbone or character and that he wouldn't accept. foreign aid. He said he's treasonous -- It's David Sacks (00:31:22): not that. -- bastard, period. Here here here's my view. Okay. Here's my view. Is that when you lose an election as a candidate, you have to look in the mirror and ask what you did wrong. Okay? Trump failed to do that 2 months ago instead of just taking the l and You know? And he he could have blamed it on the fact the vaccine was 1 week late. I mean, there were there were he you know, instead of just accepting the loss, he invented this conspiracy theory that the election was stolen, and he's basically, like Friedberg said, been pumping it month after month. And, you know, his enablers, you know, have have perpetuated until we had this, you know, total breakdown and storming of of of the capital. But again, you know, where was the democratic reassessment of why they lost in 2016. Who on the Democrat side looked in the mirror and said, you know, we shouldn't have lost that election. You know? What did we do wrong? They didn't do that. Instead, they blamed it all on Russian interference or Facebook. You know, all of a sudden Facebook went from being a darling to being escape growth. Jason Calacanis (00:32:22): And there was Russian ads Speaker 3 (00:32:24): being bought with rubles and tons of Jason Calacanis (00:32:25): link forms confirmed done by the Russians in order to ferment anti Hillary sentiment. I mean -- Yeah. David Sacks (00:32:36): No. It's it's true. -- actually happened. It's true. It's it's true. Jason Calacanis (00:32:39): No. No. In fact, the election, nobody can know that, but it did Yes. David Sacks (00:32:42): We can. Yes. We can. Because, yeah, it did. It did. Some f Jason Calacanis (00:32:46): Now you're admitting there was Russian interference. No. I know. -- saying there wasn't, and now you're saying there was. David Sacks (00:32:52): I mean, that's that's all we need to know. Speaker 1 (00:32:53): -- David Sacks (00:32:53): somebody no. No. It's not. Because Here here's the here's where you're being misleading. Is, yes, is it true that there was some FSB operative somewhere buying ads on Facebook Speaker 1 (00:33:04): 100 Jason Calacanis (00:33:05): of them. 100 of them. David Sacks (00:33:07): Out of Speaker 1 (00:33:07): 1000 out of billions of impressions. Okay? It was David Sacks (00:33:08): a micro scopic number of total impressions of the election. And the people who actually looked at those ads thought they were absurd. Imagine some operative hold on. Hold on. Let me finish my Imagine some operative in Moscow trying to influence the American election by buying ads on Facebook. It it did they try yes? Look. foreign intelligence services are trying all the time. Okay? But was that the Speaker 1 (00:33:34): -- Jason Calacanis (00:33:34): They did try. David Sacks (00:33:35): They did try. Yes. But -- Okay. Jason Calacanis (00:33:36): And did Trump and did Trump and his family ask them Speaker 1 (00:33:39): -- David Sacks (00:33:39): No. There was no there was no proof of collusion. There was no proof of collusion. Okay. Okay. That's what we Jason Calacanis (00:33:43): were. -- take the meeting. Okay. David Sacks (00:33:45): No. That's what Mueller, he spent 2 years investigating it and found no collusion. Look. So my point is, again, we're getting off on a rabbit hole here. But my point was when when you as a candidate lose an election, you have to take responsibility for that. That was not done in 2000 16, and it was not done certainly in 2020 by Trump. It is the problem with both our political parties that they would rather invent conspiracy theories and lies, then acknowledge why people are rejecting them. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:13): Yeah. I attribute this. I I I would say this But that is not the point. David, you are right. Okay? Somewhere along the way, we got stuck worrying about the pronouns that we use and which bathrooms should be should not be transgendered while the American class was completely gutted from pillar to post. That is what's created the boundary conditions for this. Every single time there's been an insurrection or an uprising or a revolution in America, it has never been about ideology. It has always been about economics Always. And economics is the tip of the spear in this country whether we like it or not. It started with the Boston Tea Party You know, it continued through the civil war. It has always been about that topic. So we all let it happen, We all have a responsibility to fix it. That though is a topic, I think, for another day because that's the grand arc of what we need to do in our generation and fix this inequality gap. Meanwhile, we do have this tactical issue, which is you had the leader of the free world in my opinion, and I think in a lot of reasonable minded people's opinion, instigating essentially at a minimum a riot and at the maximum some form of, like -- Treason. -- idiotic form of Speaker 3 (00:35:40): I don't Chamath Palihapitiya (00:35:40): I don't I mean, the the problem is it's just it is just like it's just it's incomprehensible what it is. Jason Calacanis (00:35:47): I've fallen on the side that we need to prosecute him now. I was I was fiftyfifty on this, but I'll tell you what's sipped me over is, you know, if we don't prosecute him, there's this sort of, like, unfairness to it. I think that's a very good point you made, Shamoff. But I also think that he is go we need to wake people up from this fog they've been in to Friedberg. And I don't I think we have to free the re the the Republican party to get back to some more version that is reasonable like you are, Saxx. David Sacks (00:36:16): I would rather see you. The Republican Party has is is is already rejecting Trump. So just look at what's happened in the last 24 to 48 hours. Even after this storming of the capital, okay, you had Republicans who who it were just hours before objecting to the electors. they basically were saying, no. I've changed my mind. Jason Calacanis (00:36:34): Who was that? Lindsay Graham, but not Ted Cruz. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:36): Not that other Kelly Loeffler. David Sacks (00:36:38): Kelly Loeffler. Kelly Loeffler. Kelly Loeffler. Kelly Loeffler. did it, and there are a few other ones who switched sides. You had ex you had excellent speeches by Lindsey Graham and then Romini. I I agree with that. They spoke very, very eloquently. And just today, Elaine Chao resigned as secretary of transportation. I think that's mostly significant. Jason Calacanis (00:36:55): Who's with David? She's miss McConnell's wife. Yeah. David Sacks (00:36:58): Look. I think I think after Georgia, the Republican Party was already blamed Trump for that. And now after the storming of the capital, they're ready to be done with him. This idea that you need to prosecute Trump to end his somehow end his relation with the Republican party, I think it will just backfire. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:37:16): I don't think that's what the point is. I think the point is that nobody is above the law. Yeah. And when you when you lead you know, what look. The the thing with the people that attended this rally is in any other situation and, Jason, you said it earlier, These are are veterans. These are the people that are, like, working good jobs. They're trying to just keep America going. They've always believed in the and exceptionalism. There was nothing wrong with that. It was just perverted by this fucking scumbag. Yep. He is a complete piece of shit fucking scumbag. Jason Calacanis (00:37:46): He's garbage. And I think that's why you have to prosecute him. I think you have to make an example of him. I I know that they with Nixon, they took a different approach, but I just think he's too dangerous to leave unprosecuted because every time he has some bad behavior, whether it was the Ukraine, whether it's, you know, Russia we can debate what level they wanted to engage with the Russians or the you know, in the case of this riotous behavior, you know, I think he's not gonna stop. That's the thing that I fear is. I don't think he's Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:16): gonna stop. I would rather I would rather take every single person arrested and give them 0 days in jail and add it all up and give it to Trump. David Sacks (00:38:26): Well, I I I wouldn't. I mean, I I agree with you to to some degree that they were victims of this 2 month propaganda campaign to convince the right that the selection was stolen. I think a lot of those people who are storming the capital They were there because not to steal an election, but because they were thought they're there to prevent the sealing of an election. And so, yes, they they have been duped by a lot of people including, you know, leading with with Trump but including a lot of other people who should have known better. But but that being said, they did make the decision to hop the barricades, smash the windows, go into the capital. Speaker 1 (00:39:02): There Jason Calacanis (00:39:02): is some personal responsibility -- Absolutely. Yeah. We that's the tragedy of this woman. Like, let let's talk about this woman for a second. And and I think it's important to look at this specific case. This is a person who's a veteran. and she was inside the halls already and was trying to breach another area And she was just shot dead by secret service. They might have been protecting the VP. They might have been protecting Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell, who knows? But they shot her dead. Speaker 1 (00:39:33): Mhmm. David Sacks (00:39:33): Yeah. I saw it on video. I mean, it's on video. Jason Calacanis (00:39:35): it's unbelievable, and it -- Yeah. Speaker 1 (00:39:37): -- Jason Calacanis (00:39:38): I mean, coming from a law enforcement family, I can tell you that's a clean shooting. If she was breaching and they told her do not come in here, we're going to shoot you and they were protect the secret service is protecting an asset, they're allowed to shoot you. Like, you can't jump that. And she's a military vet. She's from the Air Force? I mean, what is in her mind? How wound up was she by Trump? And by this propaganda, that when they told her do not breach the second door inside there. Speaker 1 (00:40:05): By Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:05): the way, you just said the keyword. You cannot be spun up in all of this by Giuliani He's a fucking moron. You know, he can barely, like, not wet his pants. Speaker 1 (00:40:14): Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:14): You know, you're not gonna get spun up by Sydney Powell The only person that can really catalyze this is the person that has the respect that comes with sitting in the seat that's called the presidency of the United States. Jason Calacanis (00:40:28): And she's Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:28): the only one. He's the only one. We all know this. Because if Giuliani was running this rally and said, let's go storm the capital, nobody would have done it. We all know this. David Sacks (00:40:39): Look. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:40:40): What do you think about this woman, David? Like think about the psychology of this person for a second. the humanity of it. David Friedberg (00:40:46): You know, I'll say something. I think, man, politics isn't the problem. It's kind of a manifestation of the problem. If you think about how crazy it is that I posted a tweet about this the other day because I've been thinking about it a I think it's so crazy that you can show people a TV ad or a or a Facebook ad and get them to change their mind on what to vote. Like, -- people are kind of shown stuff, and and the bigger problem is this kind of reductionism that's that's kind of enveloped all of this. You know, if you if you go a 100 years, I guarantee you people were having deeper, more civil conversations about differences of opinion and ways to govern. And and and laws to govern us. And I think, like, you know, it's so easy to put a 32nd kind of reductionist ad in front of someone, incite their kind of amygdala to to to respond and change their mind about something or push them in some direction. And I think that the bigger issue with, like, what's been going on is people are kind of being pushed all the way to one side or pushed all the way to the other side through this you know, this this very kind of simple process. There is no dialogue to decide what candidate to vote for, dialogue to decide what path to take. It's it's all insidious. Like, lock his ass up, you know, kill them. Like, everything has become extremely binary. And the grace scale is really the reality. And, unfortunately, we kind of really hurt ourselves in this tribalism over objectivism kind of approach to how we talk as a society and how we debate. And as a result, people are pushed over the edge, and I think this is a manifestation of that. broader problem, which I think is probably linked to the Internet and short attention spans. Well, this is also why Jason Calacanis (00:42:32): I think the GOP has just been completely, you know But it's not just the GOP Dominic now they're but what I'm saying, they're all they they what we're sending is a good segue into Georgia Speaker 1 (00:42:43): -- David Friedberg (00:42:43): But you could say the same about AOC, and you could say that AOC is doing the same to the Democratic Party in they're, you know, equally frustrated with this extremist point of view or Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, and they're, you know, Jason Calacanis (00:42:54): capturing the caption. -- nomination, though. Right? And none of them put the conversation David Friedberg (00:42:58): They they could've, and they were closed, and it was like, hey. Look. Give everyone a $1,000,000. Okay. Great. Like and tax the rich 90%, great. Like, it's easy to say. And and my point is, By the way, I think the root of a lot of this is is people are programmed to be unhappy. Right? That that's how you instigate people to take action. The the bottom 10% of Americans make more money and have a better position in life than the top 10% of Kenyans And it's an incredible statistic if you think about it. Go to dollarstreet.org or dollarstreet.com, and you can actually play around and see what different people live like. around the world. Yet in the US, we are told at every strata whether you're wealthy or or not wealthy relative to others in the United States, that you should be better off. And it is, you know, happiness is the difference between expectation and outcome, and everyone's been set in expectation beyond what they currently have And as a result, through programmatic work that is done on people in the United States, we are being told you should be unhappy. Oh, and by the way, here's the short term solution to resolve it. And it's driving an incredible amount of of behavioral shift, and it really threatened democracy as we saw this week. And you guys will remember my my my big loser for the political loser for 20 20 was the American Democratic Institution, and I think we saw that this week. And and I -- I David Sacks (00:44:18): agree with that. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:44:20): on the on the heels of that, can I ask you guys what you think of this? Basically, Pelosi has told Pence, you have to invoke the 25th amendment they're gonna take up impeachment? What do you guys think about that? Jason Calacanis (00:44:31): I think it's the right thing to do. How do you do that? -- to be a there has to be a backstop against such work. I mean, is it is it possible can't run -- Could you do something crazy? You could oh, here's the thing. I and I I I tweeted at Free Bahar about this. If you are impeached successfully, you can't run again. So I think that this is a a a way to put the nail in the coffin of Trump. even having the ability to run-in 2024, which I think is why the Democrats are on the right side of history on this one. That's my Speaker 1 (00:44:59): -- David Friedberg (00:44:59): Maybe maybe they signed an prosecution agreement with him if he resigns, and that that's kind of the final, you know -- I mean Speaker 1 (00:45:04): -- That's what Jason Calacanis (00:45:04): I would like to see. David Sacks (00:45:06): But, Jason, why can't you trust voters to make the right decision in Speaker 1 (00:45:09): 2024? Jason Calacanis (00:45:15): I do I trust voters? It's not about trusting the voters, it's more about Do I think they should be ramifications for somebody's behavior? That's that's my fear is that if he keeps getting away with stuff, he could do something even more violent or dangerous. As Chomont said earlier, it it's a miracle that a hundred people were in shot dead, and this wasn't a firefight. I mean, if somebody takes out a gun at any moment during that and people start shooting, We could have hundreds of people, Americans dead, not just the 4 who died. And I think Trump is absolutely capable of doing something in the last 14 days. If he did this 15 days out, why wouldn't he do something else? 7 days out or 3 days out. He's a manic I mean, this is insane deranged criminal lunatic behavior. It's completely possible that he could do something more dangerous in the last 14 days. I know that that sounds crazy, but look at what we saw yesterday. David Sacks (00:46:09): I think I I think there is like a white knuckle element to the next 2 weeks. I think we're all kinda white knuckling it to, you know, to see what's gonna happen. We have 300 hours to go till Biden has sworn in, and I've gotta admit, like, I I'm I'm counting down the hours. You know? Jason Calacanis (00:46:25): It's too insane. Nobody wants David Sacks (00:46:26): to look at that. Everybody everybody's feeling everybody's feeling that. That being said, I I just think that I'm I'm more on on Friedberg point of view on this that we have this insane level of partisan warfare in the US. Mhmm. It's gone to like a whole another level. And I just and and and Trump has definitely made it worse, and the storming of the capital is the you know, is the zenith of it. It's the apex. But look, the other side's been doing it too. And the question is just how we deescalate this insane parts and Jason Calacanis (00:46:57): war -- -- the deescalation, Chamath, isn't Biden, like, being elected -- Part. I think Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:02): I think it is. Yeah. I think it is. Jason Calacanis (00:47:04): It's like we we pick the most boring candidate who has the most milk toast, middle of the road approach who who Lindsey Graham likes and who traveled the world with. I mean, Lady G loves him. David Sacks (00:47:16): Well, to to the extent that Biden has a mandate, this is it. I mean and he talked about it the in his victory speech that night which was which was was quite good. It's about bringing people together. Now look, I mean, the the issue one of the issues is you can't ignore the fact that Democrats for the last 4 years have waged this insane partisan war against Trump. I mean, let's not even go into the merits. But you had this 2 year Mueller witch hunt. You then had this impeachment you know, crusade, which look. If there was a lot of validity to the impeachment, why wasn't it used as a campaign issue last year? I just think everybody knows Speaker 1 (00:47:53): -- Jason Calacanis (00:47:53): Let me ask you a question. David Sacks (00:47:54): Everybody knows that was hyperpartisan. And and my point is that yeah. Look. I mean, I think it's a good thing if Biden can late things. That that is that is, I think, why he won the election is that he was seen as more of a sane alternatives. Jason Calacanis (00:48:07): Let me ask you a question, Saxx. do you think it would have been do you think if Trump had been impeached for the Ukraine interference and Pence had taken over we would not have seen what we would seen yesterday, and the country would have been further along to healing. David Sacks (00:48:25): So, you know, no. I mean, Pence would not have invited or asked all the supporters to come to the capital to oppose -- Okay. Speaker 1 (00:48:31): -- David Sacks (00:48:31): the county the the the county of the electors. I look. that was a unique Trump thing for, you know, he could not accept the loss and had to keep pushing and pushing and pushing. David Friedberg (00:48:42): Got David Sacks (00:48:42): on this idea that he that the election was stolen. Jason Calacanis (00:48:45): Okay. So would it be a good idea to David Sacks (00:48:46): impeach Trump? No. No. It wouldn't. No. It wouldn't. Because if you had if you had impeach Trump and well, first of all, he wasn't impeached. Okay? But if you had voted to convict him if you had removed him from office, the Senate had voted to convict over a phone call. Okay? And look, I'm not defending the phone call. I'm not saying the phone call was perfect. Okay? I know Trump says it was perfect. It was not a perfect phone call, but you can't remove a sitting president for that. Okay? Look. It was unseemly or whatever. I think we all know what he was trying to do in that phone call. But you can't remove a sitting president over that that was hyperpartisan. And so, no, the country would be much further apart today if you had done that. And and so the question now is, well, how do you bring it back together? And I think I understand where where where Chamath is coming from. I think that Trump deserves morally, culpably, I think he he Chamath Palihapitiya (00:49:36): is -- Some repudiation. David Sacks (00:49:37): Some repudiation. But but I don't believe in locking him up or or prosecuting him. That's only gonna make things much more forced. Jason Calacanis (00:49:46): For this crime? We we don't even know what else is out there. I mean, I David Friedberg (00:49:49): have a -- Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:49:50): It's -- There's other issues out there. Let's talk about Georgia. let's let I think we've nailed the Trump. I mean, unless anybody really feels like continuing to talk about the socials. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:49:57): Stacey Abrams is a genius. I mean, my gosh. should be in charge of everything. Yeah. Speaker 1 (00:50:01): Can we Jason Calacanis (00:50:01): get her on the vaccine rollout? David Friedberg (00:50:04): Well, Trump -- It's incredible. David Sacks (00:50:06): It's incredible job on the Democrat side of mobilizing. Turnout But the reason why the Republicans lost Georgia is frankly Trump I mean, Trump costs them Georgia. 2 months ago, Purdue beat us off in that election. He won. That's right. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:50:22): He won. He won. David Sacks (00:50:23): And and and he's beaten him before. I think he is I mean, he's not the most wonderful candidate, but I think he is a better candidate. And he lost because of these antics over the last 2 months. culminating in that insane phone call that Trump had with the Jason Calacanis (00:50:39): Georgia secretary of state. -- talked about that. David Sacks (00:50:40): Reference burger. Right. Jason Calacanis (00:50:42): I mean, should he be prosecuted for that, Saks? David Sacks (00:50:45): Can't you just find me 11 thousand votes? Look. I I just think, you know, I I just think Speaker 1 (00:50:49): -- -- Jason Calacanis (00:50:49): is more prosecutable. Sending people to the capital or add asking them and begging them to find him 11,000 votes. Which one is more prosecutable to you, Saxon. So you're gonna be framing some Speaker 1 (00:50:58): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:50:58): Let's let's wait, Jason. Hold on. Let let let's move let's move away from the whole Trump goes to jail for a second. I just wanna I I think it's important to talk about Georgia because I think, David, you're gonna make a point. David Sacks (00:51:08): Yeah. Exactly. I mean, look. I think we're getting hung up too much on the legalities, and let's about what's right and wrong, you know, which we is what we can agree on and let, you know, lawyers and prosecutors figure out the legalities. Ramesh Panuru from National View had a great quote about Georgia. He said that Purdue and Loffler could survive any 2 of these 3. being unimpressive candidates, Georgia shifting purple, and Trump being a maniac. And unfortunately, you had 3 out of 3, and that's why they lost. If It was a great it was a great quote. You know, be be you had the Raffles burger call. You know, can't you just find me the 11,000 votes the day before the election? I 2 days for the election. I mean, that had to push swing voters and undecided to the Democrats. And the other thing is that Purdue and Loffler weren't able to make the best argument that they had, which is if you vote for us, you end up with split you you you prevent the Democrats from having all the power in Washington. So unless you wanna give all the power in Washington to a single party, you need to vote for us. That was the best argument for voting for them because there's a lot of people in this country who believe in splitting their ticket because they don't trust either party, which is kinda where I'm at. But they were unable to make that argument effectively because Trump was still hanging on to the idea that he was gonna be president. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:52:25): No. I think David, I honestly, I think this comes down to the intelligence of the candidates. Kelly lofters a moron. She's an idiot. David Purdue's a good old boy. He's an idiot. They're just stupid. This actually speaks to a bigger problem, which is the Republicans could do so much better if they could actually find younger, more vibrant, intelligent people, and instead they find these fucking morons. I don't know where they find them. But, you know, they pulled Kelly Loeffler out of some, like, backstage Dallas beauty pageant and just kinda, like, fluffed her up and tried to get her to run. She's a moron. David Sacks (00:52:57): Loeffler. Loeffler was a mistake. Loeffler was a mistake. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:53:00): fucking idiot. Did you Jason Calacanis (00:53:01): read the story about her with the WNBA? But, I mean, Georgia is unbelievable. They face it. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:53:06): Georgia Georgia is full of so many incredible politicians, and they found that idiot. David Sacks (00:53:12): That that that was a huge mistake. If they just voted or, yeah, made it the governor made a mistake. They put they appointed her to the last 2 months. I so I I agree that she's a particularly weak candidate, but the republicans only needed one of these 2 elections. And Purdue had beaten us off of 4. I agree with you. He's not necessarily the greatest candidate of all time, but he has proved better than us off in the past, including November, And the reason why he lost 2 months later is because what's transpired in the last 2 months. Biden has active presidential, and Trump has done what he's done. And that that made all the difference. And and that, by the way, is why you're seeing the Republicans breaking from Trump. They were already on their way to breaking with them and then you had this Speaker 1 (00:53:51): -- David Friedberg (00:53:51): David Moore. Speaker 1 (00:53:52): -- David Sacks (00:53:52): the capital? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:53:52): What are the implications for Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz? David Sacks (00:53:57): I I think I think this was a blow to them because I think that what what they were doing in terms of opposing the the electors, everybody knew it was sort of cynical And -- Theater. Speaker 1 (00:54:11): -- David Sacks (00:54:11): it was theater. Theater. It was performative theater designed to curry favor with Trump so that he might endorse them in 2020 for the nomination. And and it was it was it was opportunistic. And the problem is it backfired horribly. And you know, people now see it for what it was. And so, yeah, I think it's gonna hurt ultimately, they Friedberg do something opportunistic that they thought would help them politically and I think it's gonna hurt them. Jason Calacanis (00:54:35): But wait. I have to ask you guys, do you guys know the backstory of Loeffler and the Atlantic Dream, the WNBA team? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:42): it's too honestly, Jason, I'm gonna get so angry because she is just a complete piece of shit. Please don't I I'm you can bring it I I think she's Jason Calacanis (00:54:50): just a complete -- -- Friedberg aware of this, but Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:53): I I think she's a complete piece of shit. Jason Calacanis (00:54:55): She basically Speaker 1 (00:54:56): -- -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:56): tell the story. Jason Calacanis (00:54:57): It's it's basically she was anti BLM, and she was writing letters to the NBA WNBA to not allow the players to to be vocal about Black Lives Matter with the you know, after the killing of the murder of George Floyd. And so what the team did, if you look at that story, is they backed Warnock. They got on the call with him. They refused to say her name. And they rallied the support of Warnock who ultimately beat her, and they refused to say her name. I just have her again. If you the players on her own team. Speaker 1 (00:55:33): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (00:55:33): courage? If you wanna see courage, the women that play in the WNBA are some of the most incredible people Speaker 1 (00:55:40): -- Jason Calacanis (00:55:40): Yes. -- in the world. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:55:42): These these are women's that have basically stopped their athletic careers, stopped fame, you know, stopped all of the attention. In some cases, stopped fortunes, To work on behalf of criminal justice reform, to basically overturn, you know, unjust convictions, these women are incredible. And then to be suppressed to be able to say what was on their mind, Kelly Loeffler is a piece of shit. Jason Calacanis (00:56:06): And they basically were these. vote warnock t shirts every day at every game. I mean, imagine and then now they're, I think, gonna be Chamath Palihapitiya (00:56:15): forced those when -- Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:56:17): I give them -- Sue Bird, I think, is the was the leader of the whole movement of it. -- her. Yeah. Bravo to her. Alright. Moving on from politics. I think we have to talk Friedberg about the deployment of the vaccine. I I did a quick poll on Twitter and Twitter and the American people have asked that Friedberg, the queen of Kinois, be responsible for the vaccine distribution going forward. Really? David Friedberg (00:56:42): I'm in. Let's do it. I would what is your Speaker 1 (00:56:45): -- David Friedberg (00:56:46): I would I would get that vaccine into everyone's arms in 75 days. I mean, it would Chamath Palihapitiya (00:56:51): be block and load it. -- be such a stone cold lock. Yeah. That would be amazing. David Friedberg (00:56:55): Yeah. I don't know how Jason Calacanis (00:56:56): that happened. What would you do David Friedberg (00:56:58): different -- -- to do that Jason Calacanis (00:56:59): And maybe you could describe you know, we we were supposed to be at a 1,000,000 a day. We're at 350, trending towards 400. We did 1,500,000 in 72 hours. according to Fauci at one point right after the New Year. So we're we're kinda, like, halfway where we need to be. what would you do differently? because a rollout seems we we have more than 50% are on the shelves still, not in arms. David Friedberg (00:57:22): It it is a wartime scenario. When war is happening, you don't go home at 5 PM and wake up at 9 AM and clock out for an hour for lunch and you know, you don't oh, well, don't run too fast. You know, you might trip. You don't do any of that. We've created incredible disincentives in the system, by in fact, Cuomo put out a $1,000,000 fine if if you get your vaccine out of line. I mean, think about the disincentive that creates. Now people are more scared about giving the vaccine to the wrong person than they are incentivized to give vaccine to the right person. And the reality is, this is a group game. This isn't an individual game. It's not about who gets vaccinated first and you'll live and you'll die. we all need to get vaccinated as a group so that we all have immunity so that this virus stops spreading. It doesn't matter if you're individually vaccinated. It matters if we're all vaccinated because that's the only way we're all gonna get out of the economic slump that is truly damaging this country right now. And so the first step is create a military style operation. Figure out how many feet on the ground. You know, it's it's all a rate they system. Right? How many are you running per day? And then how do you achieve that objective? And over time, you have your target rate per day. You would scale it up over 75 days or whatever your your rollout time frame needs to be. And you would say this is how we're gonna get there. We need this number of people giving shots this many minutes apart, and then you go figure out where you're gonna give the shots and who's gonna give them. Get the vaccines to where they need to get to, take over all the gymnasiums and all the stadiums and all the open sports facilities around the country, people can drive up, stand in line, Get a freaking shot, and sixty five year olds get priority for the 1st 30 days. And then after 30 days, you're 65 and over crowd loses their priority, and it's open season for who wants to get a shot. David Friedberg (00:59:08): You stand in line. You get a shot. Walk in. You got 3,800,000 nurses in the United States. You go contract 500,000 of them. You give them a huge freaking one time bonus to come and run this program. You run 24 hour shifts in the gymnasiums around the country. People come in, they get shots, they get out, takes 3 minutes. If you're feeling weird, if you have risk of allergies, you go sit in the other room, you wait for 2 hours, and there's a bunch of roaming nurses keeping eye on you. you get this thing done. That's it. This is not that complicated, and we can leverage the national guard to create the infrastructure to these lines and get these things done, we can go recruit there are plenty of nurses associations. You can go people can work overnight shifts and get paid triple overtime, get extra bonuses for doing this. It's a great way to create an economic stimulus around this. We can get it this entire country vaccinated in 90 days. And the way that Israel's doing it is a great model you know, when they run out Speaker 1 (00:59:57): -- Jason Calacanis (00:59:57): Describe that. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:59:58): So at the end of the day, if you know, when you open when you take these things out of deep freeze, you're at risk of them spoiling. at that point because the mRNA is very you know, it can break, and so it needs to be really cold, and then you gotta give the vaccine very quickly. Otherwise, the mRNA can degrade, and it's not effective. Jason Calacanis (01:00:13): And you have to defrost it in order to give it. David Friedberg (01:00:15): Yes. You defrost it, then it's sitting there. Now you gotta give it within a couple hours. And if you got extra doses sitting the other day -- -- complicated. What they're doing in Israel is they're looking outside They grab the pizza guy that's on the bicycle truck on the bicycle cruising by. They're like, do you want a shot? Come on in. They give him a shot. They grab the next guy. You do not need to track everyone that gets a shot. You do not need everyone to show their ID to get a shot. You do not need to x, y, and z. All the disincentives that create friction in the system of rolling out the vaccine need to be completely eliminated. There's no qualifying criteria except maybe being 65 and over for Speaker 1 (01:00:44): the 1st 30 days. And we prioritize politics David Friedberg (01:00:44): over health and safety. We have made it the case that the teachers should get the the shot first because the teachers unions created an uproar in California and said they're not gonna go to work unless they so now the teachers are gonna get it, and the essential workers are gonna get it, which are people that are working in stores and warehouses and other stuff. And, meanwhile, the people that can actually die from this, 15% likelihood of death if you're over 85, are not getting it because they're not technically essential workers. So the prioritization where we've tried to create these artificial politically motivated systems for defining who gets the vaccine and who doesn't is absolutely killing us and literally killing us. 4000 people died yesterday in the United States. And so the system is fucked up the incentives we've and don't bleat that out because that's exactly what it is. Yeah. I believe it's not in there. The the the disincentives we've created are destroying the rollout the the governors getting involved and creating models of prioritization that are politically motivated are killing us, and and we should centrally plan this thing. Ward production act, Make a shit ton of this stuff. Grab it all. Get a 100,000,000 doses distributed in the gymnasiums around the country. Get the nurses in there. Get the national guard tour. This should Jason Calacanis (01:01:49): have been federal. I mean, that's the key. This should have been a 24 effort. David Friedberg (01:01:52): Central Planning is sometimes needed to get shit done. We did it with the war production board during World War 2. We did it with the Manhattan Project. We there there have been couch like examples where we've had to centralize planning for a massive short term event. And this is one of those events, and this needs to be prioritized and organized centrally, and it needs to have the right minded people on this, not kind of people that are, you know, political operatives and not people that are working 9 to 5. Well, the good news is this is this is a war, and we need to go win the fucking war. Jason Calacanis (01:02:22): I mean, the good news is Trump has Trump has time. He's he's at Camp David this weekend, so I think he can put some attention to it. Saks. David Sacks (01:02:29): Can can I ask the question, Friedberg? Jason Calacanis (01:02:30): Yeah. David Sacks (01:02:31): So, you know, what do you think about just using markets to distribute the vaccine? David Friedberg (01:02:36): It's a great idea. I think, you know, you have to get the incentives such that kind based systems are the incentive. Right? Because the objective here is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible. So take that being your objective and then figure out, look. You guys are gonna get a $1000 per person vaccinated in the 1st 15 days, and then you're gonna get $500. And then some you know, whatever the the transition is. And then anyone can sign up to buy doses at a at a cost, so they they they have skin in the game. Right? That's an alternative. So let Walgreens and CVS buy 50,000,000 doses. And then they're incentivized to get them rolled out as quickly as possible. Let them do the work. Sure. And, frankly, if a few people have anaphylactic reactions across the country. That's just the reality. In war, you have some casualties. This can't be perfect. It has to be good enough to win the war. David Sacks (01:03:20): Well, by by the way, when when somebody goes into anaphylactic shock, just to clarify that. David Friedberg (01:03:24): Yeah. You got Chamath Palihapitiya (01:03:24): a shot. David Sacks (01:03:24): Yeah. You got an epi shot. It's not fatal if you have an epi pen. David Friedberg (01:03:28): That's right. And so so, you know, when you get a when you get a, you know, a vaccine if you get one of these vaccines, a 40% 60% of people are gonna have some sort of reaction. You're gonna have a fever. because these are you these produce a ton of proteins in your body relative to what you would normally, you know, kind of experience with a with a dead vaccine. There's a lot of vaccines in your there's a lot of protein in your body. Your body reacts to get rid of that protein. You produce all these antibodies very quickly. So you end up having a fever. You end up having some some allergic response or headaches or flushing or whatever. So everyone's gonna have a lot of people are gonna have some sort of thing. So one of the learns is they wanna have nurses available, and they wanna have this feel like a controlled medical environment. But, again, the reality is we have to sack it up. we have to accept the fact that people are gonna be uncomfortable. It is not gonna be an easy simple vaccine. Like, you get the flu vaccine at Walgreens. It's gonna be a little bit uncomfortable. You may not have 5 or 6 nurses surrounding you and getting all the TLC that Americans have become used to getting every time we, you know, brush our freaking teeth. And and we're gonna have some people going to anaphylactic shock, and they're gonna get EpiPen shots. And and, you know, and we shouldn't be charging $1500 for EpiPen shots as another, you know, important point. I think the market based model could work as well. So David Sacks (01:04:38): Actually, Israel done this right. I mean, Israel, they they moved the old people to the front of the line, but anybody can get in line. If they've got extra doses that day. They just keep sticking people. They keep jabbing people until they run out. All day long till they run out. David Friedberg (01:04:52): That's right. And they they're they're probably at 20% of the population by now. David Sacks (01:04:56): Yeah. I so I I'm sure we all agree with everything you're saying. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:04:59): It speaks to an enormous amount of political incompetence. I mean, it's really, really just unbelievable why we just don't have smarter people in charge of these things. David Friedberg (01:05:10): But, Zach, I I ask you because, you know, there is the conservative argument on this, which is, you know, states the federal government shouldn't be doing everything, and states need to kinda manage their their populace and manage you know, what what goes on locally. You know, what is the conservative I'm not asking you this, and I'm not attacking you. I'm just asking, like, what is the conservative argument for not doing central plan and central organization around vaccine distribution and delegating it to states. And, you know, are are there you know, do you think that there's a case against you know, for that, that that's pretty strong in within the Republican party and within kind of conservative ranks. David Sacks (01:05:45): I I I I think if there's a conservative point of view on this, it would just be that let let markets distribute the vaccine. They'll do a much better job. I don't you know, I think whether it's federal or state, the question is who's more incompetent that I'm not really sure. I mean, I I I think the problem right now is that when you make vaccine distribution fundamentally political, then the debate becomes about exactly who's what is your position gonna be exactly in line as opposed to just running the most number of people through the process as quickly as possible. We're getting ourselves so twisted up in knots over making sure that the exact right person is in line that we're having, you know, vaccine go to waste. And just Jason Calacanis (01:06:26): to put that in context, Speaker 1 (01:06:28): 21,000,000 Jason Calacanis (01:06:31): Plus doses have been distributed in the United States, 5.9 have made their way into people's arms. In other words, there are 15,000,000 over 75% of doses have not gone in people's arms. And in California, we have distributed Speaker 1 (01:06:45): 5.85% Jason Calacanis (01:06:48): of the population's vaccines, but we've only put 1.3 in people's arms. So we are literally 4x where we should be. We're at 25 percent of where we should be. It is absolutely unbelievable that this is happening. And meanwhile If David Sacks (01:07:03): the government if the government's if the government stopped trying to do anything except you know, look, it it did operation warp speed. That actually did help get vaccines done faster. But if you Speaker 1 (01:07:13): just -- That David Friedberg (01:07:13): was just that was just money to your point, Sachs. All they did was create a market where they basically pre bought all the vaccines whether or not they were gonna work. and then funded the market to go and produce them early, that's all that it was. So to your point, that operation warp speed for everyone thinking it's a massive centrally controlled effort. it was a market based incentives. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:31): They put Jason Calacanis (01:07:31): up a couple -- -- Manhattan Project is what you're saying. David Friedberg (01:07:33): They they put up a couple of 1,000,000,000. Yeah. They they put up a couple $1,000,000,000 and said to all these pharma companies, go produce the vaccine, and if it works, we'll buy them. If it doesn't work, throw them away, but let's get production going. And that was it. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:45): Can I can I use this as a segue? Like, I mean, what we're seeing is sort of we have a bunch of elected officials. We give them you know, an enormous amount of responsibility, they also get this implied power, and then you just you see sometimes in these acute moments they're totally derelict. Then I just wanna move off of vaccines for a second. Then you get an elected official who is not acutely incompetent but it seems broadly grossly and consistently incompetent. And I wanna talk about Chesa Boudin. And I I wanna use Saks's article, which To be very honest, David, was probably one of the most incredibly well written things Speaker 1 (01:08:28): -- Jason Calacanis (01:08:28): Well done. Speaker 1 (01:08:29): -- Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:29): you have ever created. I don't know, Jason. Do we have show notes? Can we put it in Speaker 1 (01:08:34): -- Jason Calacanis (01:08:34): We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. We'll put a link in the show notes. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:37): It is so fucking good what you wrote. If everybody folks who are listening have a chance to read David's Jason Calacanis (01:08:43): killer DA. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:08:45): The killer DA, but it basically, you know, starts with a profile of this young woman seem like an incredible woman that was killed by this drunk driver. But anyways, David, do you wanna talk about it? Yeah. David Sacks (01:08:55): I mean, so for the last with let's say for the last couple of months, I've been following the San Francisco a couple of San Francisco Police Department accounts on Twitter. And I was noticing these extraordinary tweets which are getting retweeted a lot about how they kept arresting and then having to let go of all all these criminals who are committing burglaries and other crimes. And you could see the frustration of the police department boiling off these tweets. And, you know, bay basically, they are sub tweeting this new district attorney that we've had, Chase of Boudin, who has elected he's he's been in office about a year. He's elected the end of Speaker 1 (01:09:31): 2019. David Sacks (01:09:33): And so I started doing a little bit of research, and then we had this horrible New Year's Eve killing of this, you know, wonderful young woman, Hannah Abe, who came to America from Japan for college and stayed here for work She was just twenty seven years old. She gets killed by by by a a criminal. Someone who was released, who was paroled, by Chase of Bodin back in April, he had been in jail for armed robbery. Chase released him as part of a plea bargain, and then he was arrested 5 more times for stealing cars and other crimes, most recently 2 weeks ago. and the DA refused to press charges. And that that's the reason he was out on New Year's Eve. He stole a car, and then there was this hit and run where he killed Hannah and another woman. And so, you know, I had already been noticing this issue. And so I started doing some some research And I I have a research assistant helping me with this. It's the only way I could put something like this together. And we went pretty deep and we realized that The death of of Hannah wasn't just an accident or an act of negligence by this DA. It was part of an overall philosophy of decarceration that he has. He his his background is very interesting. He was a child of parents who are in the weather underground. who when he was just a baby, committed armed robbery and were part of the murder, which Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:59): was -- David -- Yeah. -- David say the words, they were domestic terrorist. David Sacks (01:11:02): They were they were that's right. They were the domestic terrorists. They participated in an armed robbery against the Brink's truck, which is -- And Jason Calacanis (01:11:08): these were domestic terrorists. That confident when compared to what we saw yesterday in the capital. Like, these are highly capable domestic terrorists, to be clear. Speaker 1 (01:11:17): I I David Sacks (01:11:17): don't know. I don't off cable. They were their their robbery results in the death of 2 police officers and a Brinks guard and they were put in prison. His mother spent 20 years in prison. She's now released her His father is still in prison for almost Speaker 1 (01:11:31): 40 40 David Sacks (01:11:32): years. And he's described in an interview as how earliest memories are visiting his parents in prison and how how this shaped his entire political outlook. And he became a public defender, which I was a pretty good place for him. I think if I were an indigent, you know, criminal defendant, I would want someone like Chase and Beauty on my side. And But the problem is he ran for district attorney, and he simply doesn't believe in prosecuting huge numbers of crimes certainly property crimes, burglary, shoplifting, vandalism. And those crimes have absolutely spiked in the city. You know? A 45% increase in burglaries in 1 year, 35% increase in stolen cars, 30% increase in homicides. Crimes are through the roof because he simply doesn't believe in putting people in jail. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:24): Well, can I just say this? David Friedberg (01:12:25): Can I try sorry. Let me just point out there's a there's a little bit of a history to to this notion that DA's should change the criminal justice system. There's a TED Talk by a guy named Adam Fossacks. I don't know if you've seen it or if any of you guys have watched it. I was at the TED Conference the year that he spoke, but this guy basically thought, you know, he made the case that it is the role in the opportunity for the district attorney, for the prosecutor change the criminal justice system from the prosecutorial side that you can, you know, kind of demotivate jail and and and other kind of you know, mechanisms of punishment and and push for a for a a rehabilitation program as an alternative, and that the district attorneys can take this this role on of changing the criminal justice system. And it created a little bit of a mini movement, and there was a lot of attention and follow-up after he gave his TED Talk. And I think San Francisco in in large part picked up on the the momentum coming out of this and other similar sort of stories about the DA can really change the criminal justice system and Chesapeake really kind of capitalized on it. In principle, a lot of people are motivated from a good place when they elected him, which is it is unfortunate. A lot of people trapped in a life of crime, and the fact that they're in and out of prison is a result of the fact that they're put into the criminal justice system in the first place. and parole is really harsh on people and and all these other reasons why people's lives are ruined for simple mistakes. And if they get an opportunity in life, they can fix themselves, and they can come out in a better place. So there is a bit of an origin story. It's not just like San Francisco said, let's get an anarchist to BRDA and destroy the world. and and kill us all. Like, I I think it came from a good and true place where this all kind of originated, but, obviously, the experiment has gone severely awry in San Francisco, and his particular methods and and his particular actions have certainly caused far more harm than anyone has seen any good. David Friedberg (01:14:13): As Zach said, I would really point it out. Jason Calacanis (01:14:15): They've started the danger effort for him him? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:17): Well, I think the I think the danger is not that you have an enlightened political philosophy. I think that's actually quite great than that we can experiment. I think the danger is both on the left and on the right where people cathartically deal with childhood trauma through their job. And, you know, I don't know what Chesapeake has gone through, and I feel very bad that he had an incredibly hard life. more complicated or maybe not. I don't even know. But I wouldn't want to know that he's trying to deal with his own experiences through his job because that's not his job. Meaning, you know, you don't want an activist DA. I think you want a DA that enforcing the laws, and what you do want is you wanna elect politicians who change the laws to reflect our values. Jason Calacanis (01:15:05): Yeah. That would be a a better through line, I think. And and, really, I mean, if you look at what's happening in San Francisco, I think we've conflated income inequality which people in San Francisco are very tuned into with essentially, junkies, people who are addicted to incredibly hardcore drugs that are very hard to get off of, and we've had more deaths from overdoses of fentanyl than we've had. From COVID by a magnitude of 4 or Speaker 1 (01:15:35): 5. Jason Calacanis (01:15:35): I mean, it is Bedlam on the streets of San Francisco. And if you don't enforce a basic rule of law, what happens is the price of drugs gets cheaper, more available, more people try them, more people get addicted, and then more people come from other places because they know you have the lowest price on drugs, and the price of drugs is inversely correlated with prosecution of drug run. so on prosecution of crime. So this is why San Francisco is viral. David Friedberg (01:16:03): And most drugs are purchased from criminal funds. So, you know, criminal activity goes up to fund the drug purchasing. So that that that's the vicious cycle that that that's driving San Francisco. Jason Calacanis (01:16:12): And the there's a recall going on. And then in related news, Gavin Newsom is now up to a million signatures in his recall which I think is 2 thirds of the way there. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:24): Yeah. They have until mid or late February. They're gonna get the votes, and I think I think the question you know, Friedberg and I talked about this just on a phone call, he and I caught up a couple days ago. I think it is time, guys, for us to find an incredibly centrist, thoughtful candidate and put them into the recall race against Newsom. Freebrook had the best idea, which was Kim Kardashian, which I think is incredible because she is very smart. She's very likable. She's got enormous distribution. She's like a she's about to become a lawyer. You know, that'll be the amazing. The best fight from for Kardashian to run for president. David Friedberg (01:17:01): Look. It's it's pretty clear. You know, recognition influence fame is what gets people elected, you know, not the best policy and and not the the greatest experience. from Jesse Ventura to Arnold Schwarzenegger to Donald Trump. Speaker 1 (01:17:13): Ronald David Friedberg (01:17:13): Reagan. Ronald Reagan. I mean, these are celebrity who I would argue in the case of Jesse Ventura, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and maybe even Donald Trump as well, their celebrity was kind of you know, it it had hit its its its media driven apex, and and this was a second act. And, you know, perhaps someone like that is a great fit here Kim Kardashian really fits the bill, but, you know, I I I that's just a shot in the dark. But I do think someone like that needs to go up? Because if you put politician up again, it's another one of these eye rolling events and for the, you know, for the the populist to kinda really find appeal it has to be a recognized person, you know, broadly recognized and and liked person. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:17:53): Yeah. I wanna add Jason. Jason, it could be you. Jason Calacanis (01:17:58): governor Jason.com? Governor Jason. I'm not ready to run the political office. I'm fifty. And and when 60, I would consider it, actually, but not right now. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:18:06): I wanna work. -- gotta hop too. I think we all gotta hop, but I was gonna say one thing which is The beginning of today's podcast was probably the punchiest it's ever been, and I think it just speaks to the fact that there was so there it the bar was so high for Trump to have done something that would have actually gotten us to actually argue and interrupt each other. You know? because we've been so incredibly, like, loving and protective of each other for 4 years on this topic, but it literally took an armed insurrection David Friedberg (01:18:36): for the finalists. They keep in mind. Jason Calacanis (01:18:38): The besties. The besties well, I mean, I think it's good for people to see Sachs, maybe an I or Chamath and Sacks or whoever disagree on some of these cases or or Friedberg, you know, doesn't believe in prosecuting Trump. But I think we had a split ticket there where Saxon, Friedberg, felt like we shouldn't prosecute Trump and Shamoff and I were in the prosecute Trump 1. But I think we're all struggling with these issues. All America are struggling with these issues of how do you deal with a black swan event? I think that's what's so unique about Trump is and I think, David, you could speak to this is I don't think the system was designed for his level of crazy. Right? Like, our system is based on norms and traditions and trust. Just like venture investing is, and we see this in venture investing. Some founder goes off the, you know, jumps the fence and all of a sudden, you know -- Yeah. David Sacks (01:19:28): I mean, when we still I would say our system performed pretty well in terms of being stress tested and well, look. We still got 2 more weeks. You know? I think we're all kinda We're all kinda white knuckling it right now. Yeah. Speaker 1 (01:19:40): Hopefully nothing David Sacks (01:19:41): yeah. Hopefully nothing else happens. But but look, if if Trump's goal was a coup. You know, I think it's a strong word. But if it like, it totally failed. I mean, he didn't come close to Speaker 1 (01:19:53): -- David Sacks (01:19:53): No. to succeeding in a coup. Jason Calacanis (01:19:56): The opposite, in fact. David Sacks (01:19:57): The the opposite. He's he again, we talked about how I think his He destroyed his popularity over the last 2 months. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:20:04): He he impacted his earnings by negative Speaker 1 (01:20:06): $2,000,000,000. David Sacks (01:20:08): Yeah. So but but but but, you know, but but to this point about us agreeing or disagreeing, you know, I saw a whole bunch of fans of the pod like, at mentioning me saying, I wonder what Saks is gonna say about this. I don't know -- Yes. -- what? Like yeah. And I'm kinda like like, what do they think I'm gonna say? Like, they think I'm gonna be supportive of this. I mean, you know, like, I I I think somehow you Jason, you've programmed the viewers that are like I'm I'm somehow like that that the Trump the Trump guy, you know, because you're always trolling me as the Trump supporter. I mean, I Well, Jason Calacanis (01:20:40): you would believe that Russia was a hoax and that -- No. I -- would have been treated the same Climbing up those steps. We all know that's not true. David Sacks (01:20:47): Well, we're we're we're -- Some Jason Calacanis (01:20:48): of these yourself afflicted wounds of your own. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:20:50): Gotta take some ownership there. Boys, boys. Yep. I gotta hop. Okay. I love you very much. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. David Friedberg (01:20:57): I will say one thing before we meet next time. I guarantee you, some highly unexpected and highly impactful thing will occur. Jason Calacanis (01:21:06): Please know. Yeah. Can we get back to talking about specs or the bachelor? David Friedberg (01:21:10): can -- Oh Chamath Palihapitiya (01:21:11): my god. We didn't even we didn't even talk about my SPAC today. David Friedberg (01:21:14): Oh, yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:21:14): Yeah. Anyway, go ahead. Give it a plug. Go ahead. Not plug. Jason Calacanis (01:21:17): No. What? I mean, just explain to people what you do. David Friedberg (01:21:18): He doesn't need a plug. double today. It's insane. Alright. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:21:21): Well, it's quite what -- IPOE. IPOE is merging with SoFi. It's an incredible company led by an incredible CEO, Anthony Noto. you can read a little one pager on my website. But, anyways, guys, more importantly, to all the listeners out there, happy New Year to all of you guys. Let's make 2021 kick ass. Yep. I love you guys. I miss you. Jason Calacanis (01:21:41): Miss you Chamath Palihapitiya (01:21:41): guys soon. Bye. Jason Calacanis (01:21:42): Play poker soon. Oh, look. There's somebody. David Friedberg (01:21:44): Yeah. I got interrupted. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:21:45): I gotta go. Alright. We'll see you all. David Friedberg (01:21:46): I gotta interrupt it. Jason Calacanis (01:21:48): Take us out, young spielberg. Take us out, young spielberg. Speaker 1 (01:21:56): What y'all mean? Fifties are I'm doing all this. We'll let your winners ride. Rainman, David Jason Calacanis (01:22:04): Sachs. Speaker 3 (01:22:08): We open source it to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with it. Speaker 1 (01:22:15): besties are David Friedberg (01:22:24): know this year's driveway. We should all Speaker 1 (01:22:26): just get a room into Speaker 6 (01:22:32): have one big huge door because they're all just useless. It's like this like sexual tension, and they just need to release that mountain. What? David Friedberg (01:22:39): You're the thief. What? You're a thief. What? What's gonna do? Jason Calacanis (01:22:44): Where did you get murdered? Marquis are back.