回顾查马斯的意大利婚礼，风投是否过剩，好莱坞罢工，室温超导

Jason Calacanis (00:00:00): Love you guys. Hey, if you guys are, around, you know, and Anyone Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:04): want to get a glass of wine and some pasta. David Friedberg (00:00:08): Or maybe next week or something. Who knows? Maybe we Jason Calacanis (00:00:10): all get together in person. Have a glass of wine. David Friedberg (00:00:12): I see you soon. I love you guys. About to come to Italy, and basically, you're gonna gain £15 for sure. David Sacks (00:00:23): Okay. So we were there in Italy. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:24): There's a long no. Jason Calacanis (00:00:25): Is this when we were in Venice? David Friedberg (00:00:26): The quality of Italian white wine is outrageous. Really? It's outrageously. Jason Calacanis (00:00:32): Do they have a Bikini for you for when we're in Italy. David Friedberg (00:00:35): I would buy that. Jason Calacanis (00:00:36): Let's just say thank you to the amazing people of Italy for having the greatest country for adults to go on vacation in. What an incredible country? Here we go. In 3, to here. Oh, ah, yeah. Speaker 5 (00:00:53): So David Sacks (00:00:54): what's going to accumulate? Jason Calacanis (00:00:55): Everybody well. David Sacks (00:00:56): Motorcycle. Try it again. Jason Calacanis (00:00:58): 32. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the All in podcast. We are here in Beautiful, Portofino, Italy, and we have found a new bestie. Introduce yourself. I Natalie is your name? Natalie (00:01:11): That is my name. And don't be surprised by my surname. Jason Calacanis (00:01:14): Ah, you got a surname. What is the surname? Natalie (00:01:18): Palle and Gretia. No. Ah. Sorry. Palihapitiya. Jason Calacanis (00:01:21): Palle Hapitiya. So your cousins, apparently, and you were on a biotech business. I understand here in Italy. Natalie (00:01:27): In my spare time Yes. When somebody else doesn't consume the life out of me. Jason Calacanis (00:01:32): Got it. Okay. So you're, dealing drugs in Italy, and welcome to the all in pod. In all seriousness, we are here in Italy, because Chamath, and Natalie got married. Big round of David Friedberg (00:01:45): applause. Oh, Speaker 5 (00:01:47): very nice. And, Jason Calacanis (00:01:49): we decided we tape episode very quickly. But tell us, what was it like, at the wedding? Trying Shamoff Palihapitiya. Tell us about the wedding. Natalie (00:02:02): Woo. It was, Speaker 5 (00:02:04): it was Natalie (00:02:04): a lot of work and Chamath was, as you can expect, completely utterly useless. Jason Calacanis (00:02:11): Yes. We've we've seen this. Natalie (00:02:13): In fact, in fact, counterproductive. Jason Calacanis (00:02:15): He showed on Natalie (00:02:16): that time's really, really frustrating. Jason Calacanis (00:02:18): Yes. Natalie (00:02:19): But I love him nonetheless. So here we are. Very happy. David Friedberg (00:02:23): This is the moment I would like to take credit for 30% of the wedding. Ah. And then a number that you can't dispute, you don't really know what it means. Yeah. And then everybody ends up thanking you effusively. Yeah. Because they're like the 30% that they love the most. That was me. Speaker 5 (00:02:36): Yeah. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:02:37): If you wanna make an estimate, 20, 30% chance is, you can't go wrong. Friedberg and Sachs are with us, the Don. Sachs, you had a lot of clandestine meetings here. Any are we any closer to peace in Ukraine, Russia. I saw you talking to some Russian emissaries. You've been on the continent for a full month. Tell us Speaker 5 (00:02:55): how much Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:55): you go for 12 hours yesterday. Jason Calacanis (00:02:57): So Yeah. I know that you've been on some of these crazy yachts out here trying to broker peace. How close are we? And how are you drawing, your time in, Europe this summer? David Sacks (00:03:04): I I don't think we're too close. But, let me say a word about this happy couple here. So Natalie is brilliant and unstoppable. Chamath is superficial in plastic. So this was like the wedding of Oppenheimer and Barbie. And, In that analogy, Chamath, your Barbie. Jason Calacanis (00:03:25): Yes. Absolutely. Lots of substance and fire over here and complete narcissism and plastic over here. Also, the genitalia, the same size as you can. Very smooth over. Just barely a bump. Yeah. Okay. Natalie (00:03:39): Gotta leave you guys a go. Jason Calacanis (00:03:41): We'll, we'll do show. Natalie, congratulations. We love you, Sis. Congratulations. Speaker 5 (00:03:45): Thank Natalie (00:03:45): you, Jay Hall, because you celebrated her. Jason Calacanis (00:03:47): Okay. That's another one. Okay. Here she goes. Natalie (00:03:50): I wasn't talking about Chamath. So could you Speaker 5 (00:03:51): hear me? David Friedberg (00:03:51): Oh, yeah. So let's Jason Calacanis (00:03:52): cut you off. Shoot over. Oh, here. Here we go. Here we go. What a great great, week we've had here. Lots of friends came in. David Friedberg (00:04:02): Lots of friends. Lots of special friends. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:04): Lots of poker. Speaker 5 (00:04:05): Lots of poker. Jason Calacanis (00:04:05): Lots of poker. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:06): Lots of poker players that weren't invited to the wedding. Weren't invited to the poker game. Natalie (00:04:12): I mean I mean, we walked into the poker game last night, and there were all these guys that I didn't see at Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:16): the wedding. And you invited these guys David Friedberg (00:04:19): No. No. No. No. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:19): Your poker game. David Friedberg (00:04:20): No. Let's be honest. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:21): I didn't get invited Speaker 5 (00:04:22): to the Wait. David Friedberg (00:04:22): Let's let's be honest. I think it was the most unbelievably eclectic guest list. Yes. Of any wedding that's ever had. That's very true. I mean, literally, it's like a 2 by 2 matrix of villainy Yes. Wealth, fame, and infamy. Jason Calacanis (00:04:36): Yes. David Friedberg (00:04:37): I mean, you had every quadrant covered. Yes. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:39): Yeah. It was incredible. Guy and I were joking. It's like walking into the bar on Tatooine. Yes. Star Wars. Jason Calacanis (00:04:50): You know, it'd serve your Chamath Palihapitiya (00:04:51): guy chained up. I mean, it was a whole rigmarole last night. David Sacks (00:04:55): Oh my gosh. I could tell that when I was doing my toast, which Chamath told me no holds bar. Just go for it. So if I toast, he really meant roast. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:05:02): Roast. Yeah. He roast. The Italians did not get the jokes by David Sacks (00:05:06): the way. Half the audience was laughing. The poker guys were laughing. Speaker 5 (00:05:10): Yeah. David Sacks (00:05:10): And then the family section. Speaker 5 (00:05:13): No. No. David Sacks (00:05:13): I mean, I think a Jason Calacanis (00:05:15): lot of them got the jokes and they Speaker 5 (00:05:16): were Jason Calacanis (00:05:16): they were in on it. But, what an amazing week we've had here. And thank you for hosting us. Oh, you're welcome. It was absolutely wonderful. This really is in so many ways. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:05:26): Wait. We should cut in shots on the video on where we're sitting right now. This incredible deep club. We're looking out here. David Sacks (00:05:32): Right? Incredible people slits it out. I posted a photo of us just meeting out there. During our little board meeting and people immediately sloothed out. You're at, David Friedberg (00:05:39): like Langostria. David Sacks (00:05:40): Or what's it? David Friedberg (00:05:41): Langostria Paragis. Langostria. David Sacks (00:05:43): Yeah. I guess, famous red beach restaurant. David Friedberg (00:05:46): I mean, language area has these 2 incredible restaurants in Milano 3. They're just top of the top, and they have this incredible beach restaurant here. And it's the hotel or, sorry, it's the restaurant that is beside the beach club. That's also owned by the Splendido where we're Yeah. Where you guys are all staying. So, yeah, it's been it's been an amazing couple days. David Sacks (00:06:06): This little block is called Paraji. David Friedberg (00:06:08): This part is Paragi. And then if you go just a little bit further, you're in Portofino proper. David Sacks (00:06:13): Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So. David Friedberg (00:06:15): Wonderful food. Incredible food. Jason Calacanis (00:06:17): Unbelievable. We've eaten like kings. David Friedberg (00:06:19): Yeah. And, Queens, that's Jason Calacanis (00:06:21): the case, maybe. And, just a hospitality and Italy is amazing. One of my favorite places David Friedberg (00:06:26): to say to all of you guys and to all of our friends. I mean, you guys literally flew halfway around the world. For 3 days. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:06:34): Yeah. You did ruin all our summer plans. David Friedberg (00:06:36): I mean, it was incredible. And and frankly, I picked the we picked the 3 worst days, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Jason Calacanis (00:06:41): Yeah. If you had a job Everybody had to work. Yeah. A David Friedberg (00:06:44): certain person had two rooms rented at the Splendido just for meetings, and he would just be running back meetings and then trying to go to the mean, it's incredible. You guys I really I David Sacks (00:06:52): think this whole thing was a conspiracy to convene a high stakes poker game. You know, when we knew you were spending the summer in Italy, there's no poker here. I realized, how do I get the poker Chamath Palihapitiya (00:07:02): game to come? He probably he netted a profit to cover the wedding David Friedberg (00:07:06): Not no. Not to cover the wedding, but I did I did win a $1,200,000 pot from Jason Calacanis (00:07:11): that was crazy. David Friedberg (00:07:12): That was crazy. David Sacks (00:07:12): My favorite poker story is that you gotta call out of the blue. David Friedberg (00:07:16): Oh, I I'm labor. The best. Jason Calacanis (00:07:19): Get a text. Oh my god. David Friedberg (00:07:20): Need rooms, plenty, though. I'd like 2 in the morning. And I was I I looked at my phone and I'm like, why is texting me at 2 in the morning? Yeah. Need room's plenty though. And I said, it's Jamath. Is everything okay? Do you need any help? Need rooms, Blendido. And I said, I'm not your fucking travel coordinator. And he goes, can Jason Calacanis (00:07:37): you help me get a David Friedberg (00:07:38): room at this Blendido Hotel? I said, what? Your year? And so I said, well, why didn't you just meander into our game? Yeah. And so actually came to the wedding. Speaker 5 (00:07:45): Was he Chamath Palihapitiya (00:07:46): randomly in the neighborhood? David Friedberg (00:07:47): He was in the area. Jason Calacanis (00:07:48): Well, he was spending a night in he thought he would hop over. Hey. What? Oh, well, hey. David Friedberg (00:07:54): That's such a bad joke. Natalie (00:07:55): Oh, good. Jason Calacanis (00:07:56): Let's try. I stole that joke. David Friedberg (00:07:57): Bad joke. David Sacks (00:07:57): You stole it. Speaker 5 (00:07:58): I stole it. Jason Calacanis (00:07:58): Oh, that's how works in Hollywood. Okay? There's a little backstory to all of this. What happened was Chamath told me in the spring, hey, listen, Jakeow. I'm finally, I'm so excited. I'm gonna marry Nat I said, oh, that's great. You you had the kids, and now you're getting married. It's not the traditional way to do it, but congratulations. Speaker 5 (00:08:14): And he Jason Calacanis (00:08:14): said, yeah. We're gonna have, like, a little name with our families in Italy, very bespoke, the kids, parents. That's it. And then, you know, back in Silicon Valley in the Bay Area, we'll have a backyard party for everybody else. And I said, great. Let me know where in Italy we're going. And, Nat said, it's just gonna be the immediate Chamath. And I said, great. Where am I going? Tell me the location. And, if you need an efficient time in. And then, week later, we get an email Matt and, Chamath discussed it. And they said, you know what? Jake House right. We should invite everybody to Italy. And so thanks for making that decision. David Friedberg (00:08:52): Oh my god. Thank you guys for coming. Yeah. But but It was a dream. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:08:54): Didn't tell anyone Jaykow was gonna officiate. So we're sitting there Italian style for, like, 2 hours assembling for the wedding. Nothing happens. You're all just standing around waiting for something to happen. And then Shamoff comes in. Natalie comes in beautiful, dressed, amazing. Music is incredible. I see. And they sit there for another 10 minutes. And they turn around and they say the efficient. We just got a letter. The efficient is sick. We need someone we need someone to step in. And then Jake out pops up in the back. I got it. Speaker 5 (00:09:23): I got it. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:23): I understand. Knocks the Italian royalty to the right and Natalie (00:09:26): the left clouds his way through the audience, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:28): makes his way to the top, pulls out his American bow tie or whatever he had and says, let's do this. And then we had Jay Cal officiate. David Sacks (00:09:35): You did a way to support you. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:36): In a very Jay Cal way. David Friedberg (00:09:37): Yeah. Were you surprised? Yeah. David Sacks (00:09:39): I was surprised. David Friedberg (00:09:39): You were surprised. David Sacks (00:09:40): Yeah. A lot David Friedberg (00:09:41): of people were surprised. David Sacks (00:09:42): Yeah. You got me. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:43): Yeah. Because your re your regular email said, Jay Cal is gonna officiate, but then we heard nothing for two and a half months. David Friedberg (00:09:49): Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:09:49): And no one really knew and but it was a big secret. Right? Speaker 5 (00:09:52): We Jason Calacanis (00:09:52): kept it a big secret. We wanted it to be a surprise and It was just the vows and the poetry. David Friedberg (00:09:58): Oh, the poetry. Jason Calacanis (00:10:00): Oh, the poetry. Was amazing. David Friedberg (00:10:03): I'm on it. Don't make her don't make Speaker 5 (00:10:04): her no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. David Friedberg (00:10:06): No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Can you do a dramatic reading of the poem. Yeah. Can you do a dramatic reading of the poem that I Natalie (00:10:11): This one's Jamach wrote a poem Rosa. Sorry. And said David Friedberg (00:10:15): But we'll do the setup. That would that comes before. Jason Calacanis (00:10:17): Well, so this the setup was that Nat would read Shamat's poems, and Shamat would read Matt's poems. And so Nat had this incredible paulo, Quelo, Poems incredibly well thought out. That's right. And, Sorry. Then, Chamath wrote a poem from anonymous that he found, at a rest stop on the 280 written on the inside of the, bathroom stall, roses are red, No. David Friedberg (00:10:44): No. No. Jason Calacanis (00:10:46): Violence are no. Go go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. You remember it? You should have it committed to memory. Natalie (00:10:52): Let me think. Yeah. Roses are red. Pickles are green. I love your legs. And what's in between? Oh, god. God. It's so embarrassing. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:11:05): It was so embarrassing. And she had to read this. Jason Calacanis (00:11:07): She literally she's drawn up Chamath Palihapitiya (00:11:09): all of the the Speaker 5 (00:11:09): American have the American have the American have the American have the American have the American world laughing. Horrific. It really was like No. David Friedberg (00:11:10): No. No. No. Her. Yeah. Her Her first poem was a sonnet from bullying Shakespeare. My first poem was Beyonce's cuff. Yeah. Where's the where the last line is will you sit on top of me? Which she has to say, looking at her dad. It was so it was so then her second poem was, something by Gregory Hoffman. Speaker 5 (00:11:37): Who is it? No. Gregory Hoffman. David Friedberg (00:11:37): I think it was. Something Hoffman. Yep. And then mine was Yeah. Natalie (00:11:44): This anonymous thing. And her third was e Jason Calacanis (00:11:44): Cummings and mine was Doctor David Friedberg (00:11:50): Zeus. Charlotte. This was nice. Speaker 5 (00:11:52): Yeah. Doctor. Daniel Hoffman. Daniel Hoffman. Yes. Well, we had a great time. There's been a lot of news. And, Jake, you got here early. Right? David Friedberg (00:11:52): And weren't you, like, camping along the coastlines? Do you Jason Calacanis (00:12:01): wanna I went to check David Friedberg (00:12:01): for that, Ed. Speaker 5 (00:12:03): He went camping. He was trying to David Sacks (00:12:04): decide to bring San Francisco to this beautiful pristine. David Friedberg (00:12:08): Yes. Suffocating everywhere. David Sacks (00:12:10): Leaving a Speaker 5 (00:12:11): trail of needles in his way, because epic needles. Sempic needles. Swagovee. Plastic trash. He was trying to show I did I David Sacks (00:12:11): did post a thirst Jason Calacanis (00:12:19): trap. I'm very proud. I'm down £41 from the peak. Speaker 5 (00:12:21): Twenty pounds with, hiking and using the fasting app that Kevin Rose built. Jason Calacanis (00:12:21): And then the other half 0. Great Fasting app, and the other half was Ozempic would go I David Friedberg (00:12:32): understand. What does an app do to help you fast? You just fast. Speaker 5 (00:12:35): You Natalie (00:12:35): you click a button. Jason Calacanis (00:12:36): Do you eat the app? Yes. An animation then Speaker 5 (00:12:38): it Oh, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:12:39): I see. Jason Calacanis (00:12:39): Counts down the clock. David Sacks (00:12:40): What what you're trying to decide whether that you do not, you push a button. Should I you do not, and it says no. Jason Calacanis (00:12:44): Yeah. It shows you a picture of yourself. Natalie (00:12:47): Just a mirror. Picture. It shows Jason Calacanis (00:12:49): you a 5 picture. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:12:50): The 5 picture. Jason Calacanis (00:12:50): That's what I did. I took a picture of myself, like, fat Jason, and I just every time I open the refrigerator, there. David Friedberg (00:12:56): Can I ask you a question? Yes. Is it is it are we not allowed to talk about, like, fatness now or Jason Calacanis (00:13:03): I, I have strong feelings on this. I think when I I ran marathons my whole life, I was very spelt. A 100 £65 until I was 32. And then I added 2 or £3 until you guys knew me. And I hit 2 13 at my peak. I'm 171 now. 172. And, you know, I wish more people would have done an intervention. You were very clear with me. Hey. You gotta lose weight. We Speaker 5 (00:13:27): did a David Friedberg (00:13:27): lot of that. I have to tell. I'm telling the story. You can't fucking spike the story. Speaker 5 (00:13:31): I'm telling Jason Calacanis (00:13:32): the story. David Friedberg (00:13:32): No. No. No. No. You can't spike the story. Now this is your wedding present to me. Okay. Jason Calacanis (00:13:36): Thank you. David Friedberg (00:13:37): Jay Cal. Jay Cal is bordering on morbidly obese. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:42): That was 2 this is when I was 2 13. And your household, 59 Jason Calacanis (00:13:45): a good day. 5 and a half. Natalie (00:13:46): Yeah. Uh-uh. Speaker 5 (00:13:47): On a David Sacks (00:13:47): good day. David Friedberg (00:13:48): By the way, for David Sacks (00:13:49): all for for David Friedberg (00:13:50): for all these people on Twitter, everybody who who meets me always says, oh, you look so much shorter on camera. Maybe it's because I slouch, but I'm six foot 2 just in case everybody's curious. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:58): Have a good day. David Friedberg (00:13:59): Anyways, Jay Cal Jay Cal is is bordering on morbidly obese. So I make a weight bed with him. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:14:05): I was 2:13 and I said I can get to 193. 1 David Friedberg (00:14:08): yeah. 193. And I was like, I'll give you 10 k a pound or something. Whatever. Jason Calacanis (00:14:12): It was a 100 k bet. Natalie (00:14:13): It David Friedberg (00:14:13): was a $100,000 And I But it's Jason Calacanis (00:14:16): a year. David Friedberg (00:14:16): He had a year. A year goes by. I put it in my calendar, and What I do is I schedule the poker game Uh-oh. For the day before knowing that we're gonna play through midnight. So I'm like, oh, I'm gonna set this guy up. So I waited a whole year. Unbelievable. We played poker. The clock strikes midnight, and he had been eating Pete ice cream, ice cream. I'm watching it the whole time at all. I'm coming with this $100,000. I never say a scrap like this. Hey. It's time. It's 12:01. It's time Natalie (00:14:47): for the wait. He said David Friedberg (00:14:49): one wait bet. And I said, motherfucker, you made a wait bet with me. I just went Jason Calacanis (00:14:54): a year ago. I have been 192, 193 for months. I have hit the thing. I I David Friedberg (00:14:59): So he says he starts panicking. Jason Calacanis (00:15:01): Because I weigh myself in the morning. David Friedberg (00:15:03): He says he's panicking. He says, okay. Give me a few minutes. He runs into my child's bedroom and takes a shit. Jason Calacanis (00:15:10): No. No. I just took Speaker 5 (00:15:11): a lean. I took a lean. Jason Calacanis (00:15:11): He tried to lose the weight. David Friedberg (00:15:16): Who can poo at midnight? Nobody can poo at midnight. Jason Calacanis (00:15:19): Anyway, I did on the scale. I'm 195. And so he wants me to kill my clothes off. I'm like, no. I'm not David Friedberg (00:15:25): I say we have to do the way. And now in fairness to Jake, Al, I did not pre agree that I had to that I could pick the time. So he says I have until midnight. Which is true. So I said, okay. Fine. Jason Calacanis (00:15:37): He goes home. Goes home. I go on the David Friedberg (00:15:39): He does not eat. He puts on a sweatsuit. Jason Calacanis (00:15:42): I go for a run up, like, Rocky around severances. David Friedberg (00:15:44): He sweats for 4 hours. He gets, like, a tenth of a pound under before midnight. Yes. And then he's like, you owe me a $100,000. Nope. And he was kind. Jason Calacanis (00:15:52): Yeah. David Friedberg (00:15:52): He said, look, put me in the mini 1 for one drop a Jason Calacanis (00:15:56): hundred drop, and we'll both go and we'll pull it. Drop it up. Speaker 5 (00:16:00): We had a great David Friedberg (00:16:00): time. Jake got lost in the first eight hands, and Natalie (00:16:02): I'm not sure. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:16:03): I lasted longer than you. Natalie (00:16:04): I should've just you did David Friedberg (00:16:07): a verdict. Okay. Back to you, but that's the feedback story. Jason Calacanis (00:16:09): But I would say, in terms of weight, it is pernicious in America. I don't think we should be celebrating it or tolerating it. I think we should be compassionate. I think Ozempic and Wagovi, are incredible tools and manjaro. I I don't I I didn't talk about it. For the 1st year, David, you've done it as well, and you've been honest that you've tried Wagovea, whatever, and you lost a lot of weight. So congratulations. These guys have been skinny forever. But, I think take it seriously. It takes a lot of discipline, but it can be done. And I encourage people the gains I've gotten from being £40 lighter have been tremendous. I feel great. My energy level is different. My thinking is different. My sleep's better. Everything's great. And so I just wanna be around for a long time so that we can do a 1000 episodes of the show for you and the fans. And, yeah, being fat sucks the end. And if you suffer David Friedberg (00:17:01): But do you think it's it's being normalized, and do you think that that's healthy? Speaker 5 (00:17:05): What do Chamath Palihapitiya (00:17:05): you think? I, like, I I think Jason Calacanis (00:17:08): right into the microphone. No one Chamath Palihapitiya (00:17:11): no one makes no one chooses obesity. Obesity is a struggle just like diabetes. No no one chooses diabetes. Diabetes is a struggle. I've I've, you know, done some work, made some investments, been on the board of some companies that have been involved in trying to address the needs in this space. And one of the things that we've learned a lot about is how much of a social stigma it feels. People that are struggling with obesity and struggling with diabetes don't feel comfortable actively talking about it. Yeah. Because they hold a deep amount of shame about it. Jason Calacanis (00:17:38): Yes. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:17:38): They recognize that there's something deeply and healthy about it, and they feel deep shame because they're often portrayed as having the choice and making the decisions that got them to this point. Yeah. And the truth is We live in a world with extraordinary abundance in the first world. We live in a world with extraordinary opportunities for low cost calorie consumption. We find a lot of joy, in our lifestyles, and it, you know, ultimately living a happy life can lead people to a very sad place. And so, generally, I would say that this is not something that should be, stigmatized in an open way, it should be treated with compassion, but it should be spoken about openly, which is that there there is a a challenge and a struggle that people have, and we need to help and everyone needs to kind of be cognizant of the fact that I that's that's the thing. David Friedberg (00:18:25): I think we need to. I think we're normalizing it, and I think it's wrong. Yes. I I when I first came to Canada, You see the pictures when I was, like, fresh off the boat. That's what we used to call immigrants. I was real thin skinny. Real thin. And then after a year of eating whatever food it was that we could afford, yep, I became really fat, and you could see it in the pictures. And I was fat all through my grade school. I was a little skinny, but skinny fat in the face, but basically fat all through high school. And then I finally started working out and taking care of myself. And it had a huge impact on my self esteem and my self confidence. It had a huge impact on my health. Jason Calacanis (00:19:02): Yep. David Friedberg (00:19:03): I saw it basically kill my father. It's given 7 to 11 of my aunts and uncles diabetes. So I think that, like, all of this normalization is unhealthy because it actually is killing people. Jason Calacanis (00:19:15): What I learned from the dieting is portion control in America is just out of control. It it is the wrong portion sizes. So you see it here, and you see it here. When you eat here, here's a little tuna. Here's a small pasta. You know, here's some cheese and some grapes for dessert. You're done. And so once I got my portion control, I was fine. Snacking also. I just wish anybody who's suffering from it. You know, work with your doctors, work with nutritionists. Speaker 5 (00:19:40): You were David Friedberg (00:19:41): overweight too for a long time. Were you? Freeman? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:19:44): Yeah. I What were you overweight from? I I grew up not eating well. I was overweight in college. Jason Calacanis (00:19:51): Right in the microphone? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:19:52): College is when I really started to get exercise actively. And because it was never part of my upbringing as a kid was, like, eat well, get exercise. I I was very much self taught at learn how to cook and learned a lot about nutrition on my own. And, you know, look, I I I took action on my own, in my early twenties. So but, yeah, look, I mean, it it's it's so easy to not know where you find yourself and then you find yourself in this place. And I do agree that being cognizant of where you are and addressing it in an open way in an active way is the only path. I mean, there's just every every cycle we come around with some new easy solution. You guys remember the, what was it? Sensensler? Speaker 5 (00:20:32): Sense center. David Friedberg (00:20:32): Sent center. Jason Calacanis (00:20:33): Yeah. You gotta be careful with that one. Yeah. That would be more. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:20:35): And so, look, I mean, the data far looks great, with these GLP, David Friedberg (00:20:40): you know Flip ones. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:20:41): Yeah. These drugs seem to be very effective. There's some data now that shows as soon as you stop taking it, the the average person on it gains the weight right back. Speaker 5 (00:20:49): And No. Jason Calacanis (00:20:49): That didn't happen for me. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:20:50): Increased muscle mass. Maybe not, but, like, yeah, the the, you know, across a large population, there's just data that's showing there's never gonna be an easy path, and it's it's a very difficult, Jason Calacanis (00:21:00): It's a process. You know, the the thing I learned is if you just have, like, one Oreo a day or every other day, Let's say that's 50 calories. You have one of those every other day. You're gonna get £2 a year for 20 years. Now you're £40 overweight. It happens very slowly. You add it. And then you just have to be super disciplined, and you can lose a half a pound or a pound a week, and then it can come off. So, I really think it should be a movement in the United States. So much of our downstream issues, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etcetera, seem to be contributed by obesity. So I think for our entire for the entire country, I think if I ran for president, it would be Wagovee for everybody. Everybody who wants Natalie (00:21:42): it have it. There you go. It's my platform. Single issue voters. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:21:46): There's a platform you can move forward. Jason Calacanis (00:21:47): That's single issue platform. Get in shape. There's some news, I think. We could we could touch on. Speaker 5 (00:21:53): Jack, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:21:53): how you feeling? David Sacks (00:21:54): Yeah. Planning a catch. Let's do this. Jason Calacanis (00:21:56): So there was an article in vice. I guess that name check the all in podcast has said young people instead of wanting to become McKinsey consultants, now want to become members of the all in podcast and be venture Calacanis. I did a little tweetstorm that I thought, and I thought it'd be a great topic for us. I I think for young people going into venture early is not a good idea. I think generally speaking, 80% of the case cases, and I think starting your own company or joining a high growth company or maybe joining a well run large company or even joining a poorly run large companies, you learn what not to do are all better things to do in your twenties, learn, be in the trenches, but I'm curious what you think, Saks, Yeah. About this issue because we came to venture and investing in our forties, I believe, you know, both of us angel investors and then both of us having funds. So what are you advising a young person who's listening to the podcast coming out of the business school or whatever? David Sacks (00:22:55): Yeah. I agree with that. I think the main value prop that a VC has to offer a founder is advice. And if you've never walked in the founder's shoes before, if you never founded a company or at least had a significant operating role, how are you in a position to offer them advice? Now, I think there's a period of time during the bull market where people stopped thinking that way, stopped thinking that advice was the model, VCs started competing on the basis of who could be the biggest cheerleader for the founder who could offer the most sort of positive emotional support. Jason Calacanis (00:23:30): The largest valuation. David Sacks (00:23:31): Or the biggest valuation or lease governance. The idea of being completely passive, not taking a board seat was actually sold to founders as a positive for them that, like, we'll invest and we'll just, like, stay completely out of the way. And all of those ideas sounded really good when the market was booming and everything was up into the right. But now we're in a situation in which we're going through 2 years of intense turmoil. And a lot of companies aren't gonna make it. A lot of companies are restructuring. A lot of companies are gonna take down rounds and actually being able to tap your board for advice on how to get through a rough patch actually is pretty important. You realize now that, like, the uninvolved passive investor, that was not a positive value prop. That was an excuse for not having a value prop. And I think at times like this, it's really important to have VCs who've been around the block, who saw the last downturn, who ideally could have warned you that it was coming. Jason Calacanis (00:24:31): Like, we did on the spot. Like, repeatedly for, you know, a year. Months. Yeah. David Sacks (00:24:36): And so, yeah, I think that we're now seeing the correction. And I I firmly agree with your analysis that there are too many people who joined the ranks of VC who finally didn't have a value prop. And that's why I mean, in our firm, we require that everyone who joins the investment team have operating experience and ideally founder experience. Because that is ultimately what you're gonna offer founders. Jason Calacanis (00:24:57): Chamath was too much of this people larping live action role playing VC. With just absolutely no idea how this works. And now what happens to those, you know, actor or VCs who really are faced with portfolios that are upside down, and they really have no idea how to weather a storm. It's this has been a hard 18 months. Let's be honest. David Friedberg (00:25:21): Well, I think that it was a symptom of just the fact that there was a lot of free money in the system. And I don't know. The outcome is gonna be pretty basic, which is that they're gonna lose money for their limited partners. And those limited partners, if they're not totally stupid, will never give these people money again. And these people will need to just find a new job. And I don't say that in a celebratory way, it's just a very practical ones and zeros monetary assessment of the facts. Look. I think that the weird thing that has happened is that it became, like, this kind of fun thing to be say you were doing. A lot of people used to moonlight and do it on the side. Then there were all these services that will allow you to basically, like, abstract the job. But the only thing that I would just qualify your statement because I think what you're saying is, like, 90% right, but I don't think that's where the craziest outcome returns have come from? Because if you look at the two people that are really or the three people that have really generated just gargantuan home run returns on a consistent basis, one of them, for example, like Mike Morris really didn't have those bonafides operationally. But I think that what Mike probably has, and I'm saying this not knowing him, is a preternatural, like, judge of psychology, I think. I think he's an incredibly qualified people judger, and there are people like that. Now he's an outlier in order to do that, but the rest of us have to kind of, to your point, do with what we have, which is like, here's our experience and our maturity and, you know, we're telling you what we think. So I'm really excited, actually, for this wave to kinda crash on shore because the number of founders that are gonna get screwed over by folks that don't know what they're talking about, it's very high. Yeah. And that needs to come to an end as quickly as possible. David Sacks (00:27:05): Frebert? Speaker 5 (00:27:06): Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:27:06): I don't think it's just like Moritz. I think that there's a class of Successful venture capitalists. Bill Gurley is a great example. Right? He was an analyst. Danny Reimerd Index Ventures was an investment analyst Jason Calacanis (00:27:18): Fred Wilson. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:27:20): Fred Wilson. Jason Calacanis (00:27:20): Yeah. A lifetime VC. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:27:22): And and more it's John Dore. I mean, John Dore had David Friedberg (00:27:24): some Dore worked at Intel. He worked Chamath Palihapitiya (00:27:26): at Intel. But there is there are folks who have an incredible analytical capacity and that analytical capacity translates into incredible selection capability. That selection doesn't necessarily mean that they are gonna necessarily be the best advisors, and I'm not saying that any of those folks are bad advisors. But there are some venture investors. Like, founders fund is very vocal about this and very public about this, that their objective is not to be your partner in helping you make decisions and run your company and recruit people and all the other sort of rigmarole that many VCs go out and They are there to pick the best founders, and the best founders don't need Speaker 5 (00:28:03): the VC to be successful. And their job then is to Chamath Palihapitiya (00:28:03): have incredible selection capacity. So if they can select the best founders and get out of their way, they've made a lot of money and their returns are unbelievable. And then there are some VCs who were really incredible partners to their founders, and they're object to Josh Koppelman at 1st round built an entire firm around this practice which is to partner very closely with founders and to build support and Speaker 5 (00:28:27): capabilities and recent Horowitz was built on the same sort of concept Chamath Palihapitiya (00:28:27): that they would that they would roll all of their fees into building operating support and capacity to support founders and support companies. Both firms have obviously done well in their own right. And so I don't know if there's necessarily one breed that predicts success when it comes to successful venture capital. I will say for my own personal experience. I worked as an investment banker for my 1st 2 years out of undergrad. I, you know, worked I had a science background. I worked in a short private equity. I worked at Google. I did corp dev and M and A there. I started a company, ran it, sold it, did that with another business where I was on the board. So, you know, I've I've been on a couple of different places around the table that, you know, I think have given me the ability to to provide advice. I don't know if I necessarily have the same skill set that the team at founders fund and, Mike Moritz and others might have at this astute extraordinary ability to spot founders and and bring them in. So I think everyone needs to kinda recognize what they do bring to the table, be very clear about what that is. And I think to your point, there has just been an incredible bull market over the last 15 years since 2008, more money has I I heard an incredible statistic, by the way. I don't wanna get it wrong, so maybe we should fact check me after this from someone at your wedding, who I was talking to for a long time. And he was like, he was like, basically, the top 1% of VCs didn't beat what would have happened. If you just bought the top 5 public tech companies and, you know, effectively did a rebalance over the past 15 years, the bull market, I mean, the aggregation of value and technology has largely been 5050 to public and private. Yeah. So you could have just bought a few stocks and held onto them and beat all of the VCs over the last 15 years. Even though a bunch of VCs have made good money and their IRR looks like 12%, but you have to beat the risk adjusted David Friedberg (00:30:12): returns on ventures. Yeah. Even and this is not to throtiated even all of those people that you mentioned are fucking terrible. Right. Like, you should not have invested in any of those. Right. Because there's no way to turn it in any of those funds because you get a small allocation. One fund as well. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:30:27): 3 funds do crappy. Over the past 10 years or 15 year forgot the number. We've seen the public market cap of these top tech companies grow from 1,000,000,000,000 to 10,000,000,000,000. That's a 10 x. Jason Calacanis (00:30:40): Yeah. So Chamath Palihapitiya (00:30:40): all you had to do was buy those and you would have made 10 x, and that works out to north of 25% IRR. Yeah. And there's very few VCs that have been able to be 25% IRR. They assume now he was telling me his model shows that over the next 10 years, it'll be roughly 70:30. So it'll be about 30% will accrue. And and they think over the next 10 years, it's gonna go from 10,000,000,000,000 to 25,000,000,000,000. Which is still a great return just to build on this. Shows how much of a hurdle there is in venture to be successful. David Friedberg (00:31:04): I started the business in 2011. So now this is the 12th or 13th year. Just how hard this game is. I had about a 31, 32% gross IRR going into last year. And then my IRR fell off a cliff because I couldn't get into obviously, there's, like, there's no money to distribute. Jason Calacanis (00:31:21): We're just nothing to distribute. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:31:22): So my IRR start to decay. And then I had this really, really fucked up choice. I have to start selling stuff earlier than I would have otherwise to get the money back out. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:31:31): So to your point. Right. Jason Calacanis (00:31:32): Now it takes courage. Then it David Friedberg (00:31:34): it it's a really tough game over the long period Chamath Palihapitiya (00:31:37): of time. David Friedberg (00:31:37): Yeah. A really tough game. Jason Calacanis (00:31:39): I I think there's also something going on you know, in the United States and society where there are some idealized jobs. We talked about sacks elites, surplus elites, And I I wanna dovetail this with what's happening in Hollywood, the writers strike, and the actor strike. And I was looking at it. There's some unbelievable number of actors in SAG, some unbelievable number of riders. They all make, just incredibly small amounts of money on average. And, obviously, there's some big fish who do well, but it does seem like there's too many people who want too many of these idealized jobs. And and venture is one of those. And I I just would like young people to understand also Be careful what you wish for. This job has seemed easy just like it might seem easy for Tom Cruise or Christopher Nolan when you see them or Tarantino, what you don't see is all of the people who try to become Tarantino who try to become, you know, Tom Cruise. And there are far too Chamath Palihapitiya (00:32:37): 10 to 15 years before they realize that they're not. Jason Calacanis (00:32:39): And they did not actually have the fundamental skills or the work ethic that is required to become Tarantino. I listen to Tarantino's podcast. He does a Have you heard the video archives podcast yet? You have to get on this. It's him and his the co writer of, who did you write pulp fiction with? Roger Avery. Speaker 5 (00:32:56): Roger. Jason Calacanis (00:32:57): So him and Roger Avery is my favorite podcast right now. They just talk about films. Their knowledge of films is so unbelievable And the detail in which they talk about that is so crisp. They finish each other sentences in the way when maybe you listen to this podcast you know, we all go, oh, John Door. Oh, no. He worked at Intel. Oh, this person, yeah, Maritz. He was a journalist. We have a a deep, deep understanding of this business that comes from 30 years within it or 20 years. And I think you have to. I know it sounds corny, but you have to pay your dues you have to put 60, 70 hours in a week to get that elite job. And the problem today, I feel is and for people who are listening who are young people coming out of schools, if you're not willing to sacrifice 60, 70, 80 hours a week for a decade or 2, you're just not going to be successful in David Friedberg (00:33:49): by the way. And young people push back on this, and I think the simplest way to reframe it is in the following. Do you really think, for example, let's pick NBA basketball. Do you think you would be really interested or find credible that the best player in the NBA only practice 3 hours a week. Does that happen? Or do you think they're practicing 3 hours in the morning and then also 3 hours in the afternoon and they give up their live The most incredible thing that I saw in the NBA was all of these men literally gave up their life to play that game to perfect it. And that's true for anything. And so I don't understand how whether if you're a filmmaker, whether you wanna be an investor, whether you wanna be an athlete, whether you wanna be an actor, a surgeon. It's just an like, it's an immutable law of physics, so so just get over it, which is you need to put in tens of 1000 of hours. And if you cannot or won't, you should not expect the success and you should not complain. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:48): And and also the David Friedberg (00:34:49): the because it's not free. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:34:50): Yeah. The these these guys Do you agree with that or not? Yeah. Look. I mean, LeBron, 20 what was it? 2016 when they came back and won against 7? 2016? Yeah. I don't wanna 2016. I don't wanna bad scar tissue. Yeah. Right. But, the next day, Speaker 5 (00:35:03): they were, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:35:03): you know, his teammates go out and celebrate, you know, what LeBron did on Instagram the next day. Posted a photo at 7 AM if it Ron is David Friedberg (00:35:08): what you have. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:35:09): Yeah. Working out. But, look, one thing I'll say, LeBron knows what his skill is, and he knows what his game is. I think every individual needs to figure out what their skill is and what their game is and not to find glory in what others have found to be their skill and their game, that there is something that comes from mastering Speaker 5 (00:35:29): any craft that gives an Chamath Palihapitiya (00:35:29): individual joy and purpose in life. And you see this in basketball. You see it when these athletes really find what they love, and they do it, and they commit to it. And there are things that we each realized we are good at, and there are things that we've all certainly realized we are not good at. And identifying that mastering one's craft is the key to any person being successful and happy, I believe. I just just just assuming that there's a a thing out there that everyone makes money Speaker 5 (00:35:52): out of it. David Friedberg (00:35:52): Distraction alert. All of our wives are about to go swimming. Jason Calacanis (00:35:55): Oh my David Friedberg (00:35:55): lord. They're so hot. My old lord. Jason Calacanis (00:35:58): Look at my wife. Oh, Jesus. God on my day. I hit Natalie (00:36:02): the jackpot. It's beauty and Speaker 5 (00:36:03): the beast. You Jason Calacanis (00:36:04): can relate. Chihuahua. Well, when David Friedberg (00:36:07): I went, I got it. Natalie (00:36:08): We were joking at breakfast today. We were Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:10): like, my wife must have low self esteem because she's married to me. David Friedberg (00:36:13): Saks had the best slide. He's like, if you Google, not that he don't pay, you find this picture of her holding a tiger, but a lion by David Sacks (00:36:21): the lion by the tail. Which is a lot more exciting than holding a Sri Lankan by the Schlong. Jason Calacanis (00:36:30): I was playing Epic Man for Sacks when he did the roast last night. I was his, like, laughing guy. Every time he hit it, I just went back to table. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:37): You didn't get, help me off cliff. Oh, it's waiting for that. David Friedberg (00:36:40): Poor, how long he is? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:36:41): Away off the cliff. David Friedberg (00:36:42): I mean, my god. Jason Calacanis (00:36:43): I think he knows David Friedberg (00:36:44): how you know what happened? Kath told me what happened. So the the backstory is Phil Chamath is a narcissist. Jason Calacanis (00:36:50): And No. No. If you know Phil Hamuth, you know that. David Friedberg (00:36:52): Yeah. That's implied. And he just cannot give a speech. And so best friend. We He's not my best friend. He's David Sacks (00:36:58): quite nice. He'd be really excited. David Friedberg (00:37:00): But he's he he gives horrible speeches Jason Calacanis (00:37:03): He you're you're David Friedberg (00:37:03): gonna hear a best Jason Calacanis (00:37:04): friend's like free parking hour. David Sacks (00:37:05): Every speech. Well, Phil, every speech he gives at every event, it's all about himself. David Friedberg (00:37:09): It's all about himself. Jason Calacanis (00:37:10): That's why we say 7 seconds fell, but David Friedberg (00:37:12): it's incredible because it could Chamath Palihapitiya (00:37:13): be Goes off the roof. David Friedberg (00:37:14): It could be a wedding, Apartments, a funeral, a personal matter. David Sacks (00:37:17): But but in our chat, so when when Shamal said, okay. Phil's gonna give a speech. Feels like, of course, I'm gonna give a speech. Every speech I give is amazing. I tell him every time. Natalie (00:37:27): $70. Then he goes. The last David Sacks (00:37:30): event I gave a speech. It brought the house down. Everyone was laughing. I killed it. It was Doyle Brunson's funeral. Jason Calacanis (00:37:39): Oh my god. No, dude. David Sacks (00:37:41): Like, what? What? You killed me at a funeral? David Friedberg (00:37:44): So I asked I asked Hamid to do to do this toast. And I was like, okay. Well, we'll do 4 of them. I thought if we start with Helmyuth, it'll just be so bad. Jason Calacanis (00:37:52): Yeah. You bought them out early. David Friedberg (00:37:53): Yeah. You bought them out early. And then the rest Jason Calacanis (00:37:55): of you guys set the bar. David Friedberg (00:37:56): Yeah. Right. Yeah. But Saks crushed it. Natalie (00:37:58): Saks got just nailed it. Saks David Friedberg (00:38:01): Cross crushed it. Yeah. I think Natalie (00:38:02): we're all still amazed at David Sacks (00:38:07): made up the stairs. You know, it was it was a hike. Jason Calacanis (00:38:10): It was 4 David Friedberg (00:38:10): hundred steps to that. Jason Calacanis (00:38:12): Yeah. It looks good. He lost David Sacks (00:38:14): let's see what I got. Speaker 5 (00:38:15): It was David Sacks (00:38:15): pretty impressive. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:16): This has been a great episode of the ultimate pod. Jason Calacanis (00:38:18): Do anybody see Oppenheimer yet? I'm so excited. David Friedberg (00:38:21): How how do we see it? David Sacks (00:38:21): It's it's gonna be a an honor of the Barber Heimer wedding. Jason Calacanis (00:38:26): Yeah. I'm not I'm not Barbara Heimering it. I that's how Speaker 5 (00:38:29): I'm good. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:29): But the see it in IMAX. I I know Nolan had a Nolan's, like, so about 70 millimeter prints. Speaker 5 (00:38:34): He's like, you Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:35): have to watch it. David Friedberg (00:38:35): And Do Jason Calacanis (00:38:35): you know the metronome and in the city? Is it? So we should just the theater and invite some fans. Or just go. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:41): I mean, we should do that. No. Actually, let's rent it. Jason Calacanis (00:38:43): Let's rent it. This week. I've rented it. It's I think it's sold out into, like, 6. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:46): Limited time. Oh, the theater is. Jason Calacanis (00:38:47): We just have to call them and say, hey. Can we rent the thing? They'll do Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:50): a show. Jason Calacanis (00:38:51): Here's 20 times. I once went to Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:52): a showing of, interstellar there and Christopher Nolan came and spoke and got to meet him and speak to him afterwards. He's a very soft spoken guy, and he's not very sociable. He doesn't sorta like Saks. You don't wanna make eye contact and actually talk with you, but, you know, we challenge them. Jason Calacanis (00:39:07): Are you making fun of people with Asperger's? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:10): But he was great. I mean, I David Sacks (00:39:11): Hello, pot. It's Kettle calling. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:17): I will say, he he's he's, what, top 3 filmmakers of our time? Top 4? David Friedberg (00:39:22): There is a Jason Calacanis (00:39:22): For me, it's Ridley Scott. Tarantino Nolan. David Friedberg (00:39:27): Is a very funny moment. Jason Calacanis (00:39:28): Where where's your list, Saxe, right now? David Sacks (00:39:30): You gotta put Scorsesee on that list. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:31): Oh, right. Of course. PT Anderson. Jason Calacanis (00:39:33): No. No PT Anderson. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:35): Dennis still in the wave. Jason Calacanis (00:39:37): Hit or miss. David Sacks (00:39:38): Woody Allen? Can we mention that name? Jason Calacanis (00:39:40): I mean, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:39:41): I can't say that. Believe. Jason Calacanis (00:39:42): It's hard to watch It's hard to watch the whole I David Friedberg (00:39:45): I like, makes it too hard. I like, Oh my god. No. Nick, Nick, please those up. There's a very funny moment on the the first the first dinner. Yeah. You know, we did this great thing. You Nick, beep up the names when sat down. Everybody's like, Speaker 5 (00:40:03): the the and I was waiting Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:04): for David to sit. Yeah. And he David Friedberg (00:40:10): just keep talking and talking. Yeah. Talking and talking. And finally, that went to do, you know, like, sit the fuck down right now and had to get this fucking thing going. Jason Calacanis (00:40:18): So who do you got? You got score says, hey, of course. Yeah. David Sacks (00:40:20): I mean, you're talking about, like, currently a live filmmakers. I think that Jason Calacanis (00:40:23): Active filmmakers are back. David Sacks (00:40:24): Listing mentions pretty good. I don't have to think about it for missing anybody. Jason Calacanis (00:40:29): Yeah. Really Scott's up there for you. David Sacks (00:40:31): Yeah. Yeah. Really Scott. Yeah. I mean, he's still making David Friedberg (00:40:34): Christopher Nolan is pretty excellent. David Sacks (00:40:35): He's very productive. Jason Calacanis (00:40:36): Too. That's the thing about what's happening every 2 years. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:38): Michael Bay versatility, Michael Bay. Speaker 5 (00:40:40): I don't I David Sacks (00:40:40): don't know if we're discussing number 1, but, David Friedberg (00:40:43): I met Michael Bay in Costa Rica Speaker 5 (00:40:48): Can you yeah. David Friedberg (00:40:48): That's what Speaker 5 (00:40:49): you're getting at the David Friedberg (00:40:49): end of the story. Jason Calacanis (00:40:50): That's all I got. Can you did you ask for the $30 back? For transformers? David Friedberg (00:40:54): No. I mean, like, I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:40:55): I didn't particularly know Like, I cannot watch any of his films. I cannot watch any of those. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:40:59): It's He's a very nice guy. Jason Calacanis (00:41:00): Yeah. I don't I'm sure he's great. So, also on the docking. David Sacks (00:41:04): He's gotten Napoleon coming out. The trailer looks amazing. Jason Calacanis (00:41:06): Amazing. Well, anything with what he Chamath Palihapitiya (00:41:08): keeps saying is making no. No. David Sacks (00:41:09): No. No. No. No. Ridley Scott. I'm walking Phoenix playing Napoleon. It's kind of interesting. Jason Calacanis (00:41:15): I hate to go deep into the, do you guys wanna talk about zirp bad behavior, or you wanna talk about resolution of this Hollywood stuff and what it means writ large. David Friedberg (00:41:23): Well, the Hollywood stuff, look. Jason Calacanis (00:41:24): I think it's fascinating. David Friedberg (00:41:25): I tweeted about this a couple weeks ago. My observations on this were twofold. One is that it's gonna have the exact opposite effect that they want. If what they want if what the writers and the actors guild want is to show the owners of the studios, how valuable they are. The problem is that this moves the owners and the studios one step closer into the hands of tools that will disintermediate Jason Calacanis (00:41:50): the actors and the writers. They'll embrace that technology. David Friedberg (00:41:53): They'll they'll embrace the AI tools that you guys have talked about. You were showing something around even like yesterday or whatever. So, like, the point is, like, I don't see it as very effective And then my second thought is, like, I just think that unions in general are probably not a very effective way to get these concessions anymore versus the tax that the union members pay. And you can just see that in terms of, like, the number of people in unions are just kind of decaying pretty quickly. The wage gains are pretty de minimis. It's just not an effective mechanism of negotiations. Jason Calacanis (00:42:25): Sachs, the unions are a way for average performers to fight to get a little bit more, but Right. It it's the antithesis of having a meritocracy and people fighting for their best possible pay. And so the conundrum I have is I'm seeing all these Marvel actors, superhero actors getting dropped off at the protests. And they're complaining about Bob Eiger making 25,000,000. Mhmm. When Tom Cruise or, you know, Robert Downey Junior, you pick the person. I'm not singling anybody out. But those people who got to the top of the heap after 20, 30, 40 years in the business are getting paid 50,000,000 a picture. Speaker 5 (00:43:02): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:43:02): A 100,000,000 a picture of back ends. And and so what's your take on what's going on here because there it seems that I don't wanna say hypocritical, but it feels like they're talking out of both sides of their mouth. They want to have an auction to the highest bidder for these incredibly talented writers, director, producers as it should be, but then they also wanna fight for the average. David Sacks (00:43:25): Right. Well, some some of the union demands, I think, are reasonable in either why they want them. So for example, I think they were arguing for more residuals for, like you said, the kind of lower level performers so that they can get health care. Jason Calacanis (00:43:38): Yeah. Which ones? Yeah. David Sacks (00:43:39): Yeah. So I I I can understand that. At the same time, they're demanding that writer's rooms not use AI software. Jason Calacanis (00:43:45): Which they're already doing. David Sacks (00:43:46): Yeah. Which is just crazy because AI is gonna be incorporated into all software. So to not be able to use the latest features of whatever word or Google docs or whatever screenwriting software. Jason Calacanis (00:43:57): Yes. David Sacks (00:43:58): That's like the king in order to the tights to stop. You know, this this march of technology is not gonna work. I think that's, like, really off base. So I I can sympathize with some of the demands other ones I think are hard to see. In terms of your point about the economic, I mean, look, the the basic problem about with Hollywood is it's a winner to take all business. I mean, you've got a few actors who become big stars. This is true actually with all the creative industries is their power law businesses. You know, JK Rowling makes a $1,000,000,000 as an author the 10,000 author or whatever makes all of Natalie (00:44:31): us suffer. Fantasy. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:44:32): Person makes a living. David Sacks (00:44:33): Yeah. Exactly. Jason Calacanis (00:44:34): They're living a month. David Sacks (00:44:35): Yeah. Can't even make a living. And the reason by the way is because there's a lot of people willing to do it for free. Humans are fundamentally creative. There's a lot of people willing to be actors for free or Sure. Honest with society or right or whatever creatively because they're willing to do their art for free. Jason Calacanis (00:44:51): Podcasters. David Sacks (00:44:51): Right. And so the reality is the reason Hollywood doesn't have to pay these sort of the entry level actors very much is there's a lot of people willing to do too Jason Calacanis (00:45:00): many people want that job. David Sacks (00:45:01): A lot of people on it. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:02): And it doesn't need to be in a structured production system anymore anymore. I you guys saw the latest, Disney earnings release and Eiger said, we are going to consider selling Machio and a bunch of other channels. There may actually be a spin off because content creation for that mid tier or that tail no longer makes sense. It's not viable because there's so much content being generated by this very long tail that's accruing a lot of the eyeballs and a lot of the hours of consumers' mindset and time. I I think that there's a big David Sacks (00:45:32): Well, just just to connect that idea. So we were talking earlier about career choices So first of all, it's it's I agree with what you guys said about the time commitment you have to make, but it's not really about time per se. It's about your obsession level. Can you be obsessed with something so that 60, 70 hours a week feels like nothing to you? Because you're so immersed. You're so obsessed with it. Speaker 5 (00:45:51): Right. David Sacks (00:45:51): The way that Tarantino and Avery are obsessed with classic films and have the whole database in their head. So if you wanna pursue one of these careers in a winner take all space, like writing, like acting, whatever, you better just be completely obsessed. Jason Calacanis (00:46:04): Gotta be all in. David Sacks (00:46:05): Yeah. You gotta be all in. I'd say furthermore Chamath Palihapitiya (00:46:07): It'd be unique. It will make you novel. David Sacks (00:46:10): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:46:10): I mean Even if you are all in, You still have to have luck and scale. Speaker 5 (00:46:14): And And, yeah, David Sacks (00:46:14): and furthermore, you have to know where the bar is. So I think a lot of people this is one of the things I noticed when I was producing a movie is a lot of people look at, like, the worst actor or the worst screenwriter and say, I'm better than that person. So I'm gonna make it. But your bar is not the worst person who's made it. Your bar is the best person who hasn't made it. That's the person you're really competing. Next up, It's the next step. It's the person you're going on auditions and your competing against someone who hasn't made it yet, but they're amazing. And you don't necessarily know where that bar it's as much harder to see. Yeah. But that's where the bar really is. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:46:48): Right. I look. I think there's also a big disruption as well David Friedberg (00:46:51): said. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:46:51): Yeah. Totally. And as we extend the long tail of consumer content creation into what is effectively now the infinite tail of AI generation, AI generated content creation, it is gonna totally disrupt Speaker 5 (00:47:03): and change the game of Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:03): media of content generally speaking we're getting to a point now where you can effectively tie together rendering engines with scripting, with scene definition, with directorial lines, all the stuff that it goes into pre production and production, can be generated, through through AI, through scripting, and then queued and tweaked by a human, but, ultimately, it increases the scale. Like, all technologies do, it increases leverage for human. And we could see a hundred times more films come out. Each of which costs 1 100 the cost. You know, one of the best production companies in LA is Blumhouse. You know, they make they make they make get out. Jason Calacanis (00:47:40): 2,000,000 dollars. They make up Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:42): 2,000,000 bucks, and they make a bunch of them because they cost so little to make. And if any one of them hits, they make a 180,000,000 bucks or 200,000,000 bucks at the box office. It's a fantastic business model. Film it's very much a unique model in Hollywood, and it's really changed the game quite a bit. And I think we're gonna see something similar emerged because of generative AI and the tooling. And then people start to question, what David Friedberg (00:48:00): is it called? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:48:03): But, I look, one one one thing one thing I do wanna say, I do think that there's also a change in Hollywood that's gonna be driven as we talked about before by the ability to generate personalized film personalized content, rather than one piece of content for everyone where you have to make blockbusters. Everyone watches it. There is a question, however, of culture, and culture is, you know, shared experience, stories, and beliefs shared experience stories and beliefs can still be realized through personalized media, through personalized, content generation, think about, you know, an old narrative, an old tale that was told, you know, via, people speaking to each other around a campfire. The the epics and the morals of the story are still there, but everyone tells it a differently. I think that's what we may end up seeing Hollywood production or AI generated production. Jason Calacanis (00:48:49): Did you guys see this? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:48:50): Which is everyone tweaks their content in their own personal way. They consume it in their own way. But the Hollywood studios, how much of a role do they ultimately end up playing? And does this start to go ten times more what we've seen in YouTube? Content consumption goes way up. And the number of folks that are contributing to it goes way up by 10 or a 100 x. I I Jason Calacanis (00:49:07): think this is one of the fundamental things that the unions and Hollywood have not yet groked completely, which is they're not fighting each other. They're fighting TikTok, YouTube, podcasts, and people making their own content. That's taken. David Friedberg (00:49:20): They're fighting. They're they're fighting Jimmy Donaldson. They're fighting mister b. David Sacks (00:49:23): They're fighting mister b. They're fighting each other over the last Chamath Palihapitiya (00:49:26): scraps in the dark bottle. Natalie (00:49:28): Exactly. They're fighting anything entirely. They're fighting these Chamath Palihapitiya (00:49:30): the people that spend 2 hours a week listening to us rant on about stuff. Right? David Friedberg (00:49:33): Like, they're fighting people. That's 2 less hours. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:49:36): What I'm saying? Jason Calacanis (00:49:36): It's 2 less hours of broadcast TV. And then at Mr. Beast, these kids watch his videos five times. They watch 2 minutes away. David Friedberg (00:49:43): He's probably the only person in recent memory that has rebuilt, event based viewership because people know Saturday mornings at noon eastern time is when these videos drop 100 of millions of people. It's appointment television. It's appointment television. Now back by the way, when you hear, you know, the story about Mister Beast, that's a guy that's been doing it since he was thirteen years old. Jason Calacanis (00:50:05): Studying it. David Friedberg (00:50:06): He's twenty four years old. So that's 11 years where he's literally only lived and breathed everything and in the lab. I'm sorry. Generation in the lab down to the very pixel. Right? Like, when he for example, like And Chamath Palihapitiya (00:50:17): the cuts. Remember just cuts on his video? David Friedberg (00:50:20): Remember he told us about, like, thumbnails. He has an entire PhD thesis that he's earned just on thumbnails. Jason Calacanis (00:50:25): Yeah. And that's a level of commitment. I think what Hollywood needs to do just to to put it out there is the the leadership in Hollywood gets compensated on a corporate level And then they come up with this, you know, pay and sometimes residual, sometimes not, and scraps where the talent I would encourage them to read something like, an autobiography by Kurosawa and study the Tahoe system where everybody was aligned inside the company. If I'm running Disney, I'm hiring the top 2 or 300 riders, putting them full time on staff, giving them equity, and getting everybody rowing in the right direction. They do not have time to fuck around They need to be in alignment, making great content, and the incentive structure matters. If Bob Eiger is getting compensated by stock options, the actors Robert Downey Junior, who's the guy, the incredible director of swinger's and Fabro. Fabro, I I was talking to Fabro at an event, and I was like, how much, like, equity in Disney did you get for doing Mandalorian and, like, launching Disney plus for them? And he's like, 0. David Friedberg (00:51:26): 0. And I'm like, Jason Calacanis (00:51:28): why just David Friedberg (00:51:28): Well, if you if you look at back up a $100,000,000 If you know, but if you look and this is what's crazy. If you look at the biggest content producers of that older generation, they locked up the equity. You know, Spielberg owns equity in the movies that he made. George Lucas owns equity in the movie. Natalie (00:51:41): We own part Jason Calacanis (00:51:42): of the studios. He Chamath Palihapitiya (00:51:42): was the old Christopher Nolan cut on, on Oppenheimer? No. I think he gets, 20% of the gross off the first dollar. Jason Calacanis (00:51:49): That's absurd. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:51:50): And he got a $100,000,000 budget and a $100,000,000 marketing commit. On the on the the deal? Jason Calacanis (00:51:56): Joker was, taught taught Phillips. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:51:58): Yeah. Todd Phillips. Speaker 5 (00:51:59): So What is Jason Calacanis (00:51:59): the perfect example? I was David Sacks (00:52:00): talking to Todd Phillips, actually. I got to have dinner with him some. Jason Calacanis (00:52:03): Great guy. Yeah. David Sacks (00:52:03): Yeah. Great guy. And he waived his fee on Joker to take a big chunk of the equity. David Friedberg (00:52:10): Because I feel very take Jason Calacanis (00:52:11): that on the hangover. And he owned the IP of the hangover. He owned the sequels and hangover 1 and 2 amazing hangover 3. David Friedberg (00:52:19): That you can miss it. Yeah. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:52:21): Toddfield. But he made more, I think, on hangover 3. David Sacks (00:52:23): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:52:24): And he got all those guys, Gallifinakis, etcetera. They got their biggest payday on number 3. Natalie (00:52:29): Right. Jason Calacanis (00:52:29): And you you have to craft a deal. We have equity. Speaker 5 (00:52:31): The David Sacks (00:52:31): other The studio the studio was less bullish than he was on both hangover and Joker because they're Chamath Palihapitiya (00:52:36): both We shows you how it David Sacks (00:52:37): comes on. Movies. So they allowed him to take equity in exchange for giving back Jason Calacanis (00:52:42): his seat. You only wanna spend 50,000,000 on a superhero film. That's never gonna work. And then he's like, Yeah. It made a 1,000,000,000. Joker made a 1,000,000,000. David Sacks (00:52:49): Right. They thought it was too dark. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:52:51): Under estimating audiences, as always in Hollywood. David Friedberg (00:52:53): I'll tell you very funny poker story. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:52:55): It's showing here. Your Disney Jason Calacanis (00:52:57): right now, I'm gonna ride it out. I think their IP collection is amazing. I think there's a chance that, you know, depending on how, the FTC winds up being run over the long term that Disney could be, selling pieces of that business. And I think that it could become an acquisition target itself at some point. David Friedberg (00:53:15): You wanna hear a Todd Phillips focus, sorry? Jason Calacanis (00:53:16): I play a part with him. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:53:17): He's he's fine. Todd Phillips is a very, very disciplined poker player. Jason Calacanis (00:53:21): Yeah. David Friedberg (00:53:22): You know, he's got, like, a stop loss. He hits the stop loss. He's done, and he's very funny. And jokes around, you know, bus balls, whatever. And there was a while where he would play in the big game in LA with us. And he didn't say much. He was very focused and tight is right. And then he did the steal and then hangover 3 comes out. And all of a sudden, you know, he's got chirping chips. David Sacks (00:53:45): You're splashing the pot? David Friedberg (00:53:46): I bus Phillips in a pot, and he looks at me, and he called me slumdog billionaire after Natalie (00:53:53): I just David Friedberg (00:53:54): thought the guys at the table thought it was so funny because that movie slumdog millionaire had just come out. So then they all started calling me slummy. Slum tied to me. That's gonna suck. It took me a year for them to get stop calling me then. Jason Calacanis (00:54:06): Yeah. Yeah. Pretty great. David Sacks (00:54:07): On the union thing, I'll tell you So recently, it was just announced that Anchor steam shut down. Anchor steam was this beer, this native beer in San Francisco that's been around forever. Jason Calacanis (00:54:16): Japanese brewery bought them. Right? David Sacks (00:54:18): It was bought by Sapporo several years ago. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:20): And Anchor seems shut down. David Sacks (00:54:21): Anchor seems shut down. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:22): I used to go there all the time for, like, work events. You do, like, an off-site there and Go to the brewery. It's Speaker 5 (00:54:27): in. Yeah. David Sacks (00:54:27): It was, like, one of the original brews, award winning beer, iconic. Well, it's out of business now. And the Jason Calacanis (00:54:34): reason is, well, David Sacks (00:54:35): it was losing money. And you wanna know why is because 3 years ago, the workers all voted to unionize. There were only something like 60 workers, 62 workers. And 3 years ago, they voted unionized, and they voted themselves big pay increases. Yeah. And so I guess support had to go along with it. 3 years later, it supports like, shut the whole thing down. Jason Calacanis (00:54:54): I think that's fine. David Sacks (00:54:54): And that's and that's You gotta be careful what you wish for. Natalie (00:54:57): Overplay your name. I really think the David Friedberg (00:54:59): thing with unions that they get wrong is unions fight for exactly this, which is this short term increase in current compensation. And I think what unions do very poorly is actually understanding the long term equity that the employees and members of that union actually create. I tweeted this a few weeks ago as well, but The single biggest reason that motivated me when I sold my piece of the warriors was obviously just the crazy increase in the valuation. Right? I bought it for, you know, 300, 600. 300, and it was worth 5,200,000,000 at the time. But the second biggest reason was my huge fear was that I, as an owner, I just wanted to cash in the chips because I think the most right thing to do for the union, like the NBA Players Association, is to fight for equity. Yeah. If, like, Michael Jordan single handedly has created $15,000,000,000 of equity in the NBA. Yep. How much has he captured? 1 or 2,000,000,000, but not from the league. He captured it accidentally from shoes. Right? How much money is LeBron James actually created for the NBA? It's enormous. Yep. How much is he? Jason Calacanis (00:56:10): He may have captured that. David Sacks (00:56:11): They're not trying to get the right piece of the outside. Jason Calacanis (00:56:13): They're not gonna get the right piece of David Sacks (00:56:14): the inside. Doesn't do well. Then the the labor contracts become a source of huge and flexibility. David Friedberg (00:56:20): Huge and flexible can't David Sacks (00:56:20): make the necessary business changes. So to your point, the business gets shut down. David Friedberg (00:56:23): So to your point, like, when you when what happens now is there's these huge luxury taxes in professional sports. And so folks bloke the payroll. They try to get all these players, but if you don't win and get to the playoffs. You're not selling more merch. You're not getting incremental share of TV revenues. You're not getting ticket revenues. And all of a sudden, you have these massive luxury taxes you have to pay and not enough revenue to pay for it. And so these teams, all of a sudden, now start to gush money have to make capital calls because these things that sound incredible up Speaker 5 (00:56:53): front start to become real weights on these businesses. David Friedberg (00:56:54): The real thing all unions in all industries, I would I would tell you all to do is figure out how to get the equity upside in the business in which your members are working in and are creating value. David Sacks (00:57:09): Right. And in exchange for that, have more forgiveness on the downside. So the business is actually persevere, whether the storm is supposed to have to shut David Friedberg (00:57:16): down. Exactly. Jason Calacanis (00:57:17): Alignment know, align the incentives are just so critical. I was talking to the head of one of the giant publishers. I wouldn't say which one. Dibness biz insider. I don't know which one it was, but, they were being unionized. And I said, wow, is this a disaster for your business? He said, oh, Jay Cal, greatest thing ever. I said, why? He's like, now when people come to us and they wanna get paid more, we just take out the chart. How many years have you been here? Oh, 5? Okay. Yeah. 1, 2, 3, 4,5, 72,000. And they said, well, no. But I bring more page users, whatever. It's like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Pageview multiplier. Point 15. Okay. So you're 78k. And then just basically That's David Friedberg (00:57:55): what happens at business insider. Yeah. David Sacks (00:57:56): But that's kinda Who knows? Which That's probably why they're, a clickbait business. And then that Jason Calacanis (00:58:01): drives perverse incentives. It's like, why not align it with what is the profitability of the business? What is the growth of the business? A bonus pool, a base level of cash, if the unions are coming in, they are literally rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. And it's that simple. You you if David Sacks (00:58:18): both the beer industry and Hollywood are both shrinking industries. And so when you got unions demanding more and more of a shrinking pie, something's gonna break. Now look, just to be clear, I'm in favor of unions demanding things like better working conditions and health care and just like the basics. Yeah. But, you know, when they try to go for things like, I don't know, banning AI and Weird. Yeah. And proposals that distort the cost structure of the business to the point where it's just not feasible. It's not profitable. That doesn't work. Jason Calacanis (00:58:46): Also, the question is, why collar workers who can move so freely between jobs? Yeah. So elite? Why would any white collar worker who is learning and sharpening their blade and increasing their value year after year? Why would they even want to join a union? There was a podcast union that started in Spotify and, gimlet media, all of this stuff, and one of the podcasts, I think it was a reply all. They didn't wanna join the union because they're like, well, we're overcompensated. We're a hit show. And then they were all claimed that they Speaker 5 (00:59:18): were Look at David Sacks (00:59:18): what's happening in the schools. David Friedberg (00:59:19): So can we steal that? David Sacks (00:59:20): You can't get rid of a bad teacher because they're in the union. So it's like a huge procedure. Jason Calacanis (00:59:25): They put them in a building. Right. The incompetent teachers Can we have a David Friedberg (00:59:28): real man? The pro case of joining a union in 2023? Can we I Jason Calacanis (00:59:33): mean, if you could get benefits, like, some basic level of benefits? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:59:40): Look, I I think that the pitch, and, Jake, this is why I asked you this a few ago, you know, tell us your experience having grown up in a family that I think unions are pretty proliferate in these Cops firemen. Cops firemen. Jason Calacanis (00:59:53): Yeah. I mean, if you are Chamath Palihapitiya (00:59:54): The pitch is you're you're part of a membership. You have a voice. Yeah. And that voice always is your advocate. And that that advocate looks out for benefits, comp, time off, whether or not on how you get fired, all the things that you feel you may be unfairly treated by management. There's nothing novel here. David Sacks (01:00:11): I don't I don't know if Chamath Palihapitiya (01:00:11): that's It's a it's a strong appealing point. David Sacks (01:00:13): Yeah. So I don't know if that's the best steel Speaker 5 (01:00:15): man for it David Sacks (01:00:15): because employ it's it's a competitive labor market if you have skills that companies want. So you should be able to negotiate for a lot of these things yourself. I think the steelman case for unions and the reason why they formed in the first place is because American industry was basically owned by an oligopoly. They were themselves monopoly. So if you have a monopoly of industries like US Steel or standard of oil, then there's not a competitive labor market. They just set the price as they set the condition That's why the unions got started is you needed a, basically, monopoly of labor to face off against a monopoly of business. That's how it got started. And I think in those conditions, we're talking about the early 1900. Jason Calacanis (01:00:56): People are losing limbs in factories. Speaker 5 (01:00:58): Yeah. Of course. David Sacks (01:00:58): It was very different working conditions. Jason Calacanis (01:01:00): Different working conditions. David Sacks (01:01:01): And now you're talking about much more competitive industries, but look. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:01:04): Yeah. There was a great deal of lay like, manual labor needed to get productivity out of businesses and enterprise. So, you know, so much of industry changed where things became automated, where they became specialization and differentiation amongst the workforce. And it wasn't everyone is just using their arms to do things. And, you know, the this is obviously now measurable and the idea that you can basically you know, capture management or do a hostile takeover of the corporation or the equity, I I think is effectively what's happened with a lot of these these these Jason Calacanis (01:01:32): And I'll be honest, Knowing what I know about unions, if you were to do a deep dive into, you know, the police unions or the firefighter unions or the meditation unions or the teacher unions and you look at their pensions and their overtime, you would see some pretty significant abuse that the unions have built up over years to where people can make $300,000 a year in 2 or 3 years. They goose that up because then they base their pension on the average of the last 3 years. And what basically happens is all the senior guys say, listen, all over time goes to these 3 guys who are retiring in 3 years, and none of the junior guys can take any overtime. And when it's your turn Chamath Palihapitiya (01:02:12): Right. You Jason Calacanis (01:02:12): get that. All that and then we're gonna goosher pay. So And what what that does unreasonably Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:02:18): Is the pension calculation, the pay into the pension is based on some assumption of today. As that starts to happen, the pensions become underfunded because they no longer have enough capital to make all the disbursements that are supposed to happen. And there's a big argument now that there's probably over a $1,000,000,000,000 of underfunded pension liabilities in the United States, many of which are based on the fact that these payout principles were defined by some negotiation with a union. Jason Calacanis (01:02:42): And their games. And there's a large difference between somebody writing a listicle or rewriting a Washington Postarium business, a listicle? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:02:51): A listicle? Jason Calacanis (01:02:52): A listicle? Yeah. Somebody rewriting a listicle and buzzfeed or you know, somebody rewriting a Wall Street journal Paywall story and business insider, then somebody running into a Speaker 5 (01:03:02): running into Jason Calacanis (01:03:03): a burning building or, you know, Right. Having a target on their back as a cop in San Francisco. These are very different jobs. And the white collar knowledge workers are lasting what? What's the average tenure right now? 36 months? Less. 30 months? I mean, you're obviously moving from place to place. What's the point of the union David Sacks (01:03:22): a competitive labor market. And and to your point, it's true that in some cases, the unions do get a better deal for their members. However, there is a deadweight law for the union itself because the union's representing its own interest. Jason Calacanis (01:03:35): 1 a half percent. David Sacks (01:03:36): So they're taking something Natalie (01:03:37): they talk to. Jason Calacanis (01:03:38): They're skimming. You gotta pick Speaker 5 (01:03:39): the VIN. David Sacks (01:03:40): That scorsese movie. Was it the Irish? Jason Calacanis (01:03:42): Irishman. Yeah. David Sacks (01:03:43): You really just get a taste of the corruption that was involved. Jason Calacanis (01:03:45): There was some skimming going on. Yeah. Everybody gets a little skim. Well, all of a sudden, one and a times And David Sacks (01:03:48): then also the pension fund starts getting, you know, rolled into mob projects or whatever. I mean, that's, like, a while ago, but Yeah. I I There was some significant downside. Jason Calacanis (01:03:58): I my view of it is we lived in a decade of surplus elites you know, having these luxury jobs, and I'll put in the luxury jobs being a journalist, being a venture capitalist, you know, these elitist luxury jobs and in some of them, they became so wildly overcompensated. I think they wanted to feel oppressed. They wanted to feel like they need a representation, and I think they were larping to use the term again, live action role playing, that they were gonna be in a union. Like, they wanted David Sacks (01:04:27): Their larping is being victims. Jason Calacanis (01:04:29): Right. They wanted to, like, literally, the business insider people were putting up pictures of Henry Balaji and his David Sacks (01:04:35): energy. Grievances. Jason Calacanis (01:04:36): Yes. And they're on the street holding a ticket sign up And I'm like, what's the matter? Is your keyboard not ergonomic enough at home? David Sacks (01:04:43): Right. You Jason Calacanis (01:04:44): haven't been to an office in 3 fucking years. Speaker 5 (01:04:46): I David Sacks (01:04:46): didn't get the latest flavor of of kind bars or ever. Jason Calacanis (01:04:48): Yeah. No. They can get the cherry. The the cranberry. The kind bars. Walnut. Queue. Queue. Kind bars. I mean, like, leave the unions for the people who are actually the front lines. It's That's David Sacks (01:04:59): it. Lose the time. Alright. Jason Calacanis (01:05:00): So, I think, well, Chamath Palihapitiya (01:05:01): we could wrap. Should we wrap? It's probably wrap time. Would you wanna do a quick science, corner update? I got a lot of tech. Natalie (01:05:07): Hello, actually. Room temp superconductor. Yeah. See that? Jason Calacanis (01:05:09): There is a, actually, it's a very, interesting You Chamath Palihapitiya (01:05:12): you may remember a few episodes ago, and if you if you don't remember kinda can go back and watch it, where I talked a little bit about the effort to try and identify a material that can be superconducting a room temperature, which means no resistance electrons can flow through the material with no resistance, perfect electricity transfer across distance, and also enables the meissner effect where magnetic waves can reflect off of the material, which can allow things like levitating trains, which is very low friction transportation. All these benefits of superconducting materials, quantum computing, etcetera. So yesterday, and and I've gotten literally dozens of emails and notes about this in the last 12 hours. There was a paper published by a team in South Korea who seemed like a very legit team. There's no reason why they would kind of make a a fraudulent claim that there is a material that they've identified and measured to show has superconducting properties at room temperature and ambient pressure where a lot of these efforts historically have been made at room temperature, but they use 200 times atmospheric pressure to compress it. And it turns out that this material that they're using is a lead, appetite, which is a, it's a hexagonal crystal that uses a calcium phosphate and lead and that some of the cows, the lead gets replaced with copper, and the copper causes the hexagon, the crystal structure to compress a little bit that compressed crystal allows the electrons to flow through. This is their theoretical explanation on what's going on. It will be replicated. People will try and do what they are now claiming they did to damage rate this. There was some condensed matter, physics people that sent me an email and said, they don't think that this is real. They have a great deal of skepticism. David Friedberg (01:06:50): Now let me Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:50): but I sorry. Let me just say two things about this. You can read the paper. You can read the paper. It's on the internet. Yeah. The sleep. The camera manager is asleep. David Friedberg (01:06:57): Put his glasses on. He's sleeping behind here. He's just we're sleeping. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:06:59): Let me take let me take a few things. Firstly, think it's unlikely that these guys are gonna make a fraudulent claim. If they did make a fraudulent claim, it would be the end of their careers. The reputation would be damaged. So that may happen. If they did not make a fraudulent president Stanford, if they did not make a fraudulent claim and it is it does turn out to be real, Speaker 5 (01:07:20): then I do think it'll end Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:20): up being the the most important discovery in physics of this century. Jason Calacanis (01:07:29): Okay. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:29): So it's either Jason Calacanis (01:07:30): us complete utter Friedberg. David Friedberg (01:07:31): No. No. No. Jason Calacanis (01:07:32): Or it changes the universe. Speaker 5 (01:07:33): I think serious. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:34): No doubt. Look, I I know you guys I know you guys are joking about it, but Yeah. We talked about the importance of this material in technology. Yes. It's a And an everyday life and an energy David Friedberg (01:07:41): I wanna build on top of what you're saying. The thing that you're saying the more generalized concept is we have such a poor understanding of the periodic table, just broadly speaking. Of condensed matter of physics. There's so much about physics Jason Calacanis (01:07:50): and quantum Chamath Palihapitiya (01:07:53): mechanics. And just That are still we we are just literally poking around poking around. Around. Trying to figure out what's going on, and that would led to this discovery supposed to David Friedberg (01:08:01): I've made this analogy before, but if you take the periodic table and it actually kind of looks like the United States of America, we have, like, a really good sense of, like, the upper northwest and like the East Coast. And otherwise, we don't know anything. And I think it it was about two and a half years ago, right, the beginning of the pandemic, there are these three guys and I that started with this idea of just building some machine learning to experiment in silica around different materials. Right? And can you guess physical properties. And if you think these properties are better at a certain thing, can we then go and actually make samples and figure it out? And we pointed it at batteries And we said, let's just take the cheapest form of batteries LFP lithium, right, that's used in the model 3, and let's make better LFP. And what we're finding is Holy shit. Like, we don't know anything. And there are these, like, really big breakthroughs, one which we'll probably announce in, like, the next few weeks because we just raised a bunch of money around this idea. But it's all just people experimenting better and smarter. And really what you find is that there just aren't enough of those people doing it. And so the cycle time is just too long. Jason Calacanis (01:09:05): Well, and this is where AI can actually have some it's incredible game. Transformational. As AI gets smarter David Friedberg (01:09:12): Transformation. Jason Calacanis (01:09:12): Put in the inputs you give it the data set. We don't know what it's gonna come up with, and it could profoundly David Friedberg (01:09:18): The the better version of Speaker 5 (01:09:20): Part of Jason Calacanis (01:09:20): what increase our understanding Chamath Palihapitiya (01:09:21): of this. Part of what this this Korean team did is they they had separate paper that they published talking about the demonstration of using AI to try and be predictive around quantum mechanics, which is something that people said we can't really do quantum modeling until we get quantum computers. And so there there has been this this belief that once we get quantum computers, we'll be able to understand the physics of, of the quantum skill and be able to do modeling that will allow us to do more discovery. But we are still very much just poking around and theorizing And every cycle, by the way, in superconductor research, there's a different theory on what caused the superconductivity, and it shows how little we do actually. David Friedberg (01:09:58): So these guys, basically, when we were trying to build so if you if you look at like a Tesla model s, right, or model x, these are NMC or NCA batteries, right, very, very, very energy rich. But also very expensive and very complicated batteries. That won't scale to the average everyday car. And what was crazy in our attempt to take LFP, which is the cheap version and make it as keep the cheapness, but as energy dense as NMC and NCA. We ended up doping it with all kinds of random stuff that you would have never guessed in a 1000000 years. Given 1,000,000,000 of dollars, you would you needed computers to go off and actually make these guesses. So this idea that we're gonna find all this stuff at the periodic table bumbling around, I think, is such an interesting part of the physical sciences. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:43): And, again, this will lead to infinite energy storage in batteries. Yeah. You can put electricity into a battery if you had a superconducting battery. And it would cycle forever. Natalie (01:10:52): No resistance. Speaker 5 (01:10:52): And then Chamath Palihapitiya (01:10:53): you could just plug in and get the energy back out. So imagine infinite storage on batteries. You have to reinvent circuitry? Completely. Speaker 5 (01:11:00): So you Chamath Palihapitiya (01:11:00): can there are already super conducting, circuits that are used in quantum computers and other high end applications, but because they're so expensive, to cool and so expensive to operate. They're not ubiquitous, Speaker 5 (01:11:10): but the power of having them be ubiquitous would be extraordinary. Right. Natalie (01:11:11): Computing for discovery, for AI, for Chamath Palihapitiya (01:11:16): modeling, the applications of what we'll end up discovering because of the modeling we can now do in a more ubiquitous way is gonna be incredible. These are very profound moments when they do. And if they do happen, we should be excited, optimistic, but obviously very, very cautious about, where and when this may happen. David Friedberg (01:11:33): Yeah. I really love you. Jason Calacanis (01:11:34): What an incredible week. David Friedberg (01:11:35): So so thankful that you guys came and showed up. It really means a lot to me. Thank you. Jason Calacanis (01:11:39): Fantastic. Yeah. Incredible. I David Friedberg (01:11:41): really love you guys. Thank you very, very much for Jason Calacanis (01:11:43): I will see everybody, at the all in summit. Oh my gosh. Yum. Yum. David Friedberg (01:11:48): Is it like in this Jason Calacanis (01:11:49): is, like, 6 weeks? More. A little more. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:11:51): You have a new party planning going. David Friedberg (01:11:52): You have a new per Speaker 5 (01:11:53): you have David Friedberg (01:11:53): a new person to announce? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:11:55): I I will announce it, and then we'll take it out if it's not okay. But we did confirm Ray Dahlios, and we'll add him to speaker list. We've got a few other guests that we're not gonna announce. That will be last minute fun surprises for everyone. Jason Calacanis (01:12:04): Some fun surprise at David Friedberg (01:12:05): the end. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:06): I'm really excited to have a great day. Jason Calacanis (01:12:07): We're closing in Orie. Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:09): How the party's going for the summer. Jason Calacanis (01:12:10): The parties, we, we have narrowed down to 3 themes. We think are gonna be a lot of fun. Hopeeting night, Sunday night the day before the events start. September 10th, I think that is. You have locations yet? We are negotiating the final contracts with the locations. We've got about a dozen of them, and we're gonna narrow it down to the 3 that give us, the best flexibility we'll have the floor plans, which is the last step. You know, you got, like, 6 weeks. Right? Yeah. No. No. It's Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:32): we have more than enough options Jason Calacanis (01:12:34): now. So, Sunday night, we'll be Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:36): Jay Cal's handling the parties, not me. Jason Calacanis (01:12:38): I'm doing the party. She's your name. David Friedberg (01:12:39): You wanna hear a great all in summit story? Jason Calacanis (01:12:41): Yeah. But let me just go through the 3, Yeah. The 3 party themes. So These are all Opening night is gonna be bestie Royale. The bestie who love me at James Bond names So David Friedberg (01:12:48): what is that? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:12:49): Tuxedos. White tuxedos or you can go as Jason Calacanis (01:12:52): a bond girl or you can go as Austin hours, anything in that theme, casino games. David Friedberg (01:12:56): But no black tuxedo? Jason Calacanis (01:12:57): You can go black tuxedo. You can go white tuxedo. You could go Daniel Craig. You could go Sean Connery, Roger Moore. You pick. You could go to the You go whatever you want. David Friedberg (01:13:04): I like the black tux. I've tried the white tux. It doesn't You Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:07): can do it. Yeah. You go for you. David Friedberg (01:13:08): For me, I look like a waiter. Yeah. Speaker 5 (01:13:10): And so Jason Calacanis (01:13:10): it'd be like a I'd like David Friedberg (01:13:11): the I'd like the y'all public spine cisco. Jason Calacanis (01:13:13): And then, Monday night, we have a I'm Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:15): gonna wear his a a bucket hat. Jason Calacanis (01:13:17): Monday night is gonna be bestie club, breakfast club, big eighties. The location is incredible. I wouldn't say it, David Friedberg (01:13:23): but, not to Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:24): be confused with Fight Club where Jake L and I get in a ring. No. Jason Calacanis (01:13:27): Not a fight club. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:27): Each other today. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:13:28): That wouldn't last very long. That's what David Sacks (01:13:30): you have. We worked everything out of the board meeting. David Friedberg (01:13:32): Yeah. Did we work everything out between the 2 of you? Jason Calacanis (01:13:34): Yeah. Everything's good. Board meeting's great. We're gonna Speaker 5 (01:13:35): do what I'm saying. You were David Friedberg (01:13:36): embracing afterwards. I saw the 2 of you embracing. Speaker 5 (01:13:38): I, of course, Jason Calacanis (01:13:38): we had to Speaker 5 (01:13:39): do that. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:39): To give him a hug. Natalie (01:13:40): It was You know, he Chamath Palihapitiya (01:13:41): he didn't fully let me in. Speaker 5 (01:13:42): Oh, it Jason Calacanis (01:13:43): was like, you ever see Steve 3 p o trying to get a hand solo hug. It does like this. He's like, Oh, there's a 472 to 1 chance that you're my bestie. Speaker 5 (01:13:51): Oh, and then, the last night will be bestie runner, a Jason Calacanis (01:13:51): blade runner send up a cyberpunk theme to wear your best cyberpunk. David Friedberg (01:13:59): Oh, you must have a good, like, punch up person for this kind of stuff. Like, you have a person that was Jason Calacanis (01:14:03): in the our director. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:04): We've got somebody who's got a stylist department. David Friedberg (01:14:06): Costume department in Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:06): the costume department. David Friedberg (01:14:07): Costume department in the Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:07): costume department David Sacks (01:14:08): in the Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:09): costume. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:14:09): That's no. That's level 2 in the basement. Sub level 2 in the basement is the assumes. Natalie (01:14:13): So, Zach, you know, how Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:14): you haven't been to that level in your elevator? Natalie (01:14:16): Yeah. You go down. Level 2 is costumes. It's a costume. Jason Calacanis (01:14:18): Yeah. Level 3 is sets. Okay. Speaker 5 (01:14:20): I'll tell you a quick David Friedberg (01:14:20): story all in summit. I'm walking in the streets of Milan. Me, not and we're we're walking just on. And I hear it, Chamath. And I turned around. It's Damien Bertrand, the CEO of Laura Pianna. And he and so he comes. He's we're so excited to be a part of the all in summit. And I'm like, oh my god. This is I didn't Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:41): tell you Natalie (01:14:42): Oh, oh, David Friedberg (01:14:43): it's not happening? Natalie (01:14:44): No. He Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:44): it is. I know. Jason Calacanis (01:14:46): They're cushioning every seat with, No. No. No. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:48): I oh, don't don't don't ruin it. Okay. I'm not gonna run it. Been working really hard on it. David Friedberg (01:14:52): Anyways, I I saw Damien. He they're excited. He's coming. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:14:56): Yes. That was a high end sponsor. Speaker 5 (01:14:57): Well, he's coming. David Friedberg (01:14:58): We'll see him partner. Yeah. David Sacks (01:14:59): He's gonna have, Moncler? David Friedberg (01:15:02): We we did we you had every opportunity these last 3 days to do everything you needed to get a sponsorship Alright. David Sacks (01:15:08): Anyone with Moncler is listening. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:10): What are you guys right there on David Friedberg (01:15:11): the beach? Jason Calacanis (01:15:11): He's on the beach. David Friedberg (01:15:12): He had the widest. Speaker 5 (01:15:13): Oh, okay. You Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:13): were just sitting here. David Friedberg (01:15:14): He was right there and the person. Do you see the Jason Calacanis (01:15:16): yacht right there? That's his boat? Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:18): This is his restaurant. David Friedberg (01:15:19): I can't. Jason Calacanis (01:15:19): This is his restaurant. David Friedberg (01:15:20): I can't I cannot. I can't do enough. I can't do any more than life Speaker 5 (01:15:25): for you. Jason Calacanis (01:15:26): Get on the dinghy. Go to David Friedberg (01:15:27): his phone. You need to get off your phone. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:28): You keep sitting right there. You need David Friedberg (01:15:29): to pay attention. Natalie (01:15:31): Yeah. Yeah. Get David Friedberg (01:15:32): playing. Oh my gosh. Oh, never mind. I wanna please Speaker 5 (01:15:34): sit in the boot. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:35): I'm not gonna you. Jason Calacanis (01:15:36): Stop playing chess. Speaker 5 (01:15:36): And David Friedberg (01:15:36): you gotta go, yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:37): I know you. Jason Calacanis (01:15:38): You know the funny David Friedberg (01:15:40): bleep it out, man. Jason Calacanis (01:15:41): Well, bleeping out. Here's what happens. The guy, Friedberg comes up. He's in a panic. Speaker 5 (01:15:45): Oh, Jason Calacanis (01:15:46): we've got a problem, Jake. Uh-uh, the production has got a problem. We they're gonna kick us out of the restaurant. The guy goes, I don't think it's gonna be a problem. Gonna fix it. And February's like, how are you gonna fix it? He's like, well, I own the restaurant. And, so I'll ask them. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:15:58): We bought it. Jason Calacanis (01:15:59): Do, not to kick you out. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:01): And not gonna be a problem. It's not gonna be Speaker 5 (01:16:03): a problem. It's not gonna be a problem. And Don't Natalie (01:16:04): think it's gonna be David Friedberg (01:16:05): a problem. And He sat beside for a whole day Speaker 5 (01:16:09): Right. David Friedberg (01:16:09): Who is on the board. And I said, David, she's on the board. So if you this is your moment, you sold out their hats. And and this is David. Cut to David. Beep up the name. Jason Calacanis (01:16:19): Hold on. Natalie (01:16:20): Oh, oh, I hold on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hear a lot David Friedberg (01:16:23): of stuff. Peter Till and I are in level 4 of my basement. Jason Calacanis (01:16:26): I'm in a game of blitz with Peter Till. Natalie (01:16:28): Hold on. Playing blitz checks. My rating is Chamath Palihapitiya (01:16:32): 6 It's a terrible hangover. Let's get Speaker 5 (01:16:34): out of here. David Friedberg (01:16:34): Alright. Everybody's live from Jason Calacanis (01:16:36): Portofino Hangover. David Friedberg (01:16:37): Thank you, guys. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Speaker 5 (01:16:46): We'll let David Sacks (01:16:48): your winners ride. Jason Calacanis (01:16:51): Rainman, David Sacker. And it David Sacks (01:16:55): said open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. On air when they're trying. Speaker 5 (01:17:12): I'm think you, George, because they're all just useless. It's like this, like, sexual tension, and they just need to release her mouth. Jason Calacanis (01:17:32): Where did you get Murphy's