与埃隆·马斯克对话：特斯拉、推特与言论自由

Speaker 1 (00:00:03): After buying Twitter for $44 billion, Musk's time as CEO has been a whirlwind. Shares of Musk's other major company, Tesla, have plummeted more than 30% since he took over Twitter. As is often the case, his next move is unclear. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:20): I go as far to say that he's demonstrating some erratic behavior. Elon Musk (00:00:24): Go fuck yourself. Is that clear? I hope it is. Hey, Bob. Here in the audience. Jason Calacanis (00:00:34): Elon Musk's cooperation and/or relationships with other countries is worthy of being looked at. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:00:43): The Biden administration has just announced its second investigation into Elon Musk in less than a week. Speaker 5 (00:00:49): Both the Tesla and SpaceX, there's a product road map that they're on, and whether Elon is in the building or not is not going to impact the plan that they have. Jason Calacanis (00:01:01): People said he'd never get the rocket in space. He did that. People said the roadster would never get delivered. He did that. People said he'd never get a hundred of them done. He's got two hundred done. As an entrepreneur, you can't listen to the noise. And you certainly can't listen to losers who have never accomplished anything with their life who are obsessing about you. Please. Elon Musk (00:01:23): We're out there among the stars, and we're a multi-planet species across many planets and many star systems. This is a great future, and that's what we should strive for. Pure customer support at your service. David Friedberg (00:01:45): Nearly every VC I speak with, every CEO is looking to Elon's behavior and saying that's a model for how you can challenge your team to achieve the impossible in an impossibly difficult environment. Speaker 7 (00:01:56): And you can see those grid fins on your left-hand screen rotating and turning to guide the booster and then stop landing. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:21): He's just a visionary like I've never seen. Jason Calacanis (00:02:24): How on earth would you bet against him? David Sacks (00:02:26): Elon seems to be on track to be not only the world's richest man, but the world's first trillionaire. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:02:31): Elon basically has had over the last 10 or 15 years an incredible amount of challenges that he's overcome, probably had to deal with stuff that most of us would have broken under, and he just fought through it. And the guy just basically bended all the haters until he crushed their souls. And I just think that that's incredible. Elon Musk (00:03:15): I'm gonna Yep. Jason Calacanis (00:03:16): I'm gonna take this. Alright. So thanks for taking the time. How, how you doing, brother? You keeping busy? Elon Musk (00:03:32): Yeah. I mean, it's rarely a slow week. I mean, in the world as well. Jason Calacanis (00:03:42): Yeah. I Elon Musk (00:03:42): mean, any given week, I mean, it just seems like the things get nuttier. Jason Calacanis (00:03:45): It it it's definitely a simulation. We've agreed on this at this point. Elon Musk (00:03:50): I mean, like, well, if if we are in some alien Netflix series, I think the ratings are high. Jason Calacanis (00:03:55): Yeah. Ratings are high. Okay. How are the, the the freedom of speech wars going? This is a, we you've been you've been at war for two years now. Elon Musk (00:04:10): Yes. Jason Calacanis (00:04:11): The price of freedom of speech is not cheap, is it? Elon Musk (00:04:13): I think it's, like, 44,000,000,000 something like that. Just Jason Calacanis (00:04:16): Wrong numbers. Give or give or take a billion? Elon Musk (00:04:19): Yeah. Wrong numbers. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's it's pretty nutty. There there there is like this weird movement to quell free speech, kind of around the world. And, and that's something we should be very concerned about. You know, you have to ask, like, why was the First Amendment, like, a high priority? I was like, number one. Number one. It's because people came from countries where if you spoke freely, you would be imprisoned or killed. And they were like, well, we'd like to not have that here, because that was terrible. And actually, you know, there's a lot of places in the world right now. If you're critical of the government, you get imprisoned or killed. Right. Yeah. We'd like to not have that. David Friedberg (00:05:10): Are you concerned David Sacks (00:05:12): right to that? Elon Musk (00:05:12): Yeah. I mean, I suspect this is a receptive audience to that message. David Sacks (00:05:23): You know, I think we always thought that the West was the exception to that. That we knew there were authoritarian places around the world, but we thought that in the West we'd have freedom of speech. And we've seen, like you said, it seems like a global movement. In Britain, you've got teenagers being put in prison for memes. Yes. Opposing Elon Musk (00:05:42): It's like you like the Facebook post. Throw them in prison. Yeah. Yeah. It's like people have gone to actual prison for, like, obscure comments on social media. Not even shitposting yet. Like, not even. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:05:57): It's crazy. David Sacks (00:05:57): It's like a a Elon Musk (00:05:59): a a a a a problem. Problem. I'm like, that is just shocking. I was like, what is the massive crime that Right. David Sacks (00:06:07): Pavel in France, and then, of course, we got Brazil with Judge Voldemort. That one seems like the one that impacts you the most. Can you what's the latest on that? Elon Musk (00:06:21): Well, I guess we are trying to figure out if there is some reasonable solution in Brazil. You know, the concern—I mean, I wanted to make sure that this is framed correctly. And, you know, funny names aside, the nature of the concern was that, at least at X Corp, we had the perception that we were being asked to do things that violated Brazilian law. So, honestly, we cannot, as an American company, impose American laws and values on other countries. We wouldn't get very far if we did that. But we do think that if a country's laws are a particular way, and we're being asked to do what we think we're being asked to break them, and be silent about it, then obviously, that is no good. So I just want to be clear. Sometimes it comes across as, Elon's trying to just be a crazy billionaire and demand outrageous things from other countries. And while that is true, in addition, there are other things that I think are valid, which is, we obviously can't, I think any given thing that we do at X Corp, we've got to be able to explain in the light of day and not feel that it was dishonorable or that we did the wrong thing. You know? So that was the nature of the concern. We actually are in discussions with the judicial authorities in Brazil to try to run this to ground. Like, what's actually going on? If we're being asked to break the Brazilian law, then that obviously should not sit well with the Brazilian judiciary. And if we're not and we're mistaken, we'd like to understand how we're mistaken. I think that's a that's a pretty reasonable position. Jason Calacanis (00:08:49): I'm a bit concerned as your friend that you're going to go to one of these countries, and I'm gonna wake up one day, and you're gonna get arrested and, like, I'm gonna have to go bail you out or something. Like, this feels very acute. Like, yes. I mean, it's not a joke now. Like, they're literally saying, like, you know, it's not just Biden saying, like, we have to look into that guy. Now it's become quite literal. Like, this I don't know. Who is the guy who just wrote the, was it the Guardian piece about, like Elon Musk (00:09:16): Oh, yeah. Yeah. The the the there have been three articles, and I think in the past three weeks Robert Reich. But it wasn't just him. It was, like, yeah. Three different articles. Three different articles. Jason Calacanis (00:09:27): It doesn't that's a trend. Elon Musk (00:09:29): Calling for me to be imprisoned. Right. In in the Guardian, you know, like, the Guardian of Life. Jason Calacanis (00:09:35): What are they projecting? Exactly. Yeah. Elon Musk (00:09:38): Guardian of I don't know. Of Authoritarianism? Yeah. Guardian of, yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:09:44): Yeah. Censorship? Elon Musk (00:09:45): Censorship. Jason Calacanis (00:09:46): But, I David Friedberg (00:09:47): mean, but the premise here Jason Calacanis (00:09:48): is that you bought this thing, this online forum, this communication platform, and you're allowing people to use it to express themselves. Therefore, you have to be jailed. I don't understand the logic here. Elon Musk (00:10:01): Right. Jason Calacanis (00:10:02): What do you think they're actually afraid of at this point? What's the motivation here? Elon Musk (00:10:08): I mean, I think if somebody's sort of trying to push a false premise on the world, and that premise can be undermined with public dialogue, then they will be opposed to public dialogue on that premise because they wish that false premise to prevail. Jason Calacanis (00:10:26): Right. Elon Musk (00:10:26): So that's, I think, you know, the issue there is, if they don't like the truth, you know, then we want to suppress it. So now the, you know, the sort of what we're trying to do with X Corp is, I distinguish that from my son who's also called X. Jason Calacanis (00:10:47): Yes. Right. You have parental goals? Elon Musk (00:10:52): Everything's just called X, basically. Jason Calacanis (00:10:55): It's it's Elon Musk (00:10:55): a very difficult disambiguation. The son. Yeah. It's X everything. So, what we're trying to do is simply adhere to the laws in a country. So if something is illegal in the United States or if it's illegal in Europe or Brazil or wherever it might be, then we will take it down or we'll suspend the account because we're not there to make the laws. But if speech is not illegal, then what are we doing? Okay. Now we're injecting ourselves in as a censor, and where does it stop, and who decides? So where does that path lead? I think it leads to a bad place. So if the people in a country want the laws to be different, they should make the laws different. But, otherwise, we're gonna obey the law in each jurisdiction. Jason Calacanis (00:11:57): Right. And some of these European That's Elon Musk (00:11:58): that's it. It's not more complicated there. We're not trying to flout the law. We're gonna be clear about that. We're trying to adhere to the law. If laws change, we will change. And if the laws don't change, we won't. We're just literally trying to adhere to the law. It's pretty straightforward. Yes. It's very straightforward. Jason Calacanis (00:12:13): Is some And Elon Musk (00:12:14): if somebody thinks we're not adhering to law, well, they can file a lawsuit. Bingo. Also very straightforward. Yes. Jason Calacanis (00:12:20): I mean, there are European countries that don't want people to promote Nazi propaganda. Elon Musk (00:12:24): Yes. Jason Calacanis (00:12:25): They have some sensitivity to it. Elon Musk (00:12:26): Well, it is illegal. It is illegal in those countries. Jason Calacanis (00:12:29): And in those countries, if somebody puts that up, you take it down. Yes. But they typically file something and say, take this down. Elon Musk (00:12:35): And no. In some cases, it is just obviously illegal. Like, you don't need to file a lawsuit for, you know, if something is just, you know, unequivocally illegal. We can literally read the law. This violates the law. You know, anyone can see that. Like, you know? Yeah. You don't need like, if somebody is stealing, you don't need let me check the law on that. Yeah. Okay. Oh, no. They're stealing stuff. Let's go. David Friedberg (00:12:59): Let's go. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:00): So we had we had J.D. Vance here this morning. He did a great job. And, you know, one of the things is there's this image on X of, like, basically, like, you, Bobby, Trump, and J.D. are like the Avengers, I guess. And then there's another meme where you're in front of a desk where it says D-O-G-E. Yeah. Yeah. The Department of Governmental Efficiency. Elon Musk (00:13:22): Yes. Yes. I pushed that one. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:24): Tell us about Elon Musk (00:13:25): I made it using Groq, the Grok image generator. And I posted it. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:31): Tell us about that one. Jason Calacanis (00:13:32): I put Elon Musk (00:13:32): it to my profile. Jason Calacanis (00:13:33): See it David Sacks (00:13:33): for efficiency. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:13:36): How do you even do it? Well, I mean, I Elon Musk (00:13:46): I think with great difficulty, but, you know, look, it's been a long time since there was a serious effort to reduce the size of government and to remove absurd regulations. Yeah. And, you know, last time there was a really concerted effort on that front was Reagan in the early eighties. We're 40 years away from a serious effort to remove, you know, regulations that don't serve the greater good and reduce the size of government. And I think it's just if we don't do that, then what's happening is that we get regulations and laws accumulating every year until eventually everything's illegal. And that's why we can't get major infrastructure projects done in the United States. Like, if you look at the absurdity of the California high-speed rail, I think they spent $7 billion and have a 1,600-foot segment that doesn't actually have rail in it. I mean, your tax dollars at work? I mean, yeah. What are we doing? That's an expensive 1,600 feet of concrete. You know? And, I mean, I think it's like if you know, I realize sometimes I'm perhaps a little optimistic with schedules, but, you know, I mean, I wouldn't be doing the things I'm doing if I was not an optimist. But at the current trend, you know, California high-speed rail might finish sometime next century. Maybe. Well, probably not. We're just gonna have Jason Calacanis (00:15:20): We'll have teleportation by that time. Elon Musk (00:15:22): Yeah. Exactly. AI do everything at that point. So so so so so you I I think you really think of, you know, the the United States and and many countries. It's it's, arguably worse than the EU as being, like, Gulliver tied down by a 1000000 little strings. And, like, any one given regulation is not that bad, but you've got a million of them. And, or millions, actually. And then eventually you just can't get anything done. And this is a massive tax on the consumer, on the people. It's just they don't realize that there's this massive tax in the form of irrational regulation. I'm gonna give you a recent example that, you know, is just insane, is that SpaceX was fined by the EPA $140,000 for, they claimed, dumping potable water on the ground, drinking water. And we're like, this is at Starbase. And we're like, we're in a tropical thunderstorm region. That stuff comes from the sky all the time. And there was no actual harm done. You know, it was just water to cool the launch pad during liftoff, and there's zero harm done. And they're like, they agree, yes, there's zero harm done. And we're like, okay. So there's no harm done. And you want us to pay a $140,000 fine? It's like, yes. Because you don't have a permit. Okay. We didn't know there was a permit needed for zero harm, fresh water being on the ground in a place where fresh water falls from the sky all the time. Jason Calacanis (00:16:59): Got it. Next to the ocean. Elon Musk (00:17:02): Next to the ocean. Jason Calacanis (00:17:03): Because there's a little bit of water there too. Elon Musk (00:17:05): Yeah. I mean, it's not as rain so much that the roads are flooded. So we're like, you know, how does this make any sense? Yeah. And then, like, then they they were like, well, we're not gonna process any more of your applications for launch, for Starship launch, unless you pay this $140,000. That is ransom to us. And we're like, okay. So we paid the $140,000, but it was a it's like this is no good. I mean, at this rate, we're never gonna get to Mars. Jason Calacanis (00:17:30): I mean, that's the that's the confounding part here. Elon Musk (00:17:34): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:17:35): Is we're acting against our own self-interest. You know, when you look at we do have to make putting aside fresh water, but, hey. You know, the rocket makes a lot of noise. So I'm I'm certain there's some complaints about noise once in a while, but sometimes you wanna have a party or you wanna make progress, and there's a little bit of noise. Therefore, you know, we we trade off a little bit of noise for massive progress or even fun. Yes. So, like, when did we stop being able to make those trade-offs? But talk about the difference between California and Texas, where you and I now reside. Texas, you were able to build the Gigafactory. I remember when you got the plot of land, and there it seemed like it was less than two years when you had the party to open it. Elon Musk (00:18:21): Yep. Jason Calacanis (00:18:22): From from Elon Musk (00:18:22): start of construction to completion, was 14 months. Jason Calacanis (00:18:28): 14. Elon Musk (00:18:29): 14 months. Jason Calacanis (00:18:29): Is there anywhere on the planet that would go faster? Is, like, China faster than that? Elon Musk (00:18:34): China was 11 months. Jason Calacanis (00:18:35): Got it. So Texas, China, 11, 14 months. California, how many months? Elon Musk (00:18:41): And just to give you a sense of size, the Tesla Gigafactory in China is three times the size of the Pentagon. Jason Calacanis (00:18:48): Which was the biggest building in America? Elon Musk (00:18:50): No. There were bigger buildings, but the Pentagon's a pretty big one. Jason Calacanis (00:18:52): Yeah. Where was the big one? Elon Musk (00:18:53): In units of Pentagon, it's, like, three. Jason Calacanis (00:18:56): Okay. Three Pentagons and counting. Elon Musk (00:18:59): Yeah. Got it. In 14 months. Just the regulatory approvals in California would have taken two years. Jason Calacanis (00:19:09): Yeah. Elon Musk (00:19:09): So that's the issue. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:19:11): Where do you think the regulation helps? Like, for the people that will say, we need some checks and balances. We can't have some because for every good actor like you, there'll be a bad actor. So where is that line then? Elon Musk (00:19:22): Yeah. I mean, I haven't, sort of, you know, in in sort of doing sensible deregulation and reduction in the size of government, the is is just, like, be very public about it and say, like, which of these rules do you if if the public is really excited about a rule and wants to keep it, we'll just keep it. And and here, the thing about the rules, if if, like, if the rule is, you know, turns out to be bad, let's put it right back. Okay? And and then, you know, problem solved. It's like it's easy to add rules, but we don't actually have a process for getting rid of them. That's the issue. There's no garbage collection for rules. Jason Calacanis (00:20:01): When we were watching you work, David and I and Antonio, in that first month at Twitter, which was all hands on deck and you were doing zero-based budgeting, you really quickly got the costs under control. And then miraculously, everybody said this site will go down, and you added 50 more features. So maybe explain. Because this is the first time. Yeah. Elon Musk (00:20:24): There were, like, so many articles like that this is Twitter is dead forever. There's no way it could possibly even continue at all. Jason Calacanis (00:20:33): It was almost like the press Elon Musk (00:20:34): was rooting for you to fail. This right there. Like, here's the obituary. They're David Sacks (00:20:37): all saying their goodbyes Elon Musk (00:20:38): on Twitter. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. David Sacks (00:20:40): Yeah. They're all leaving and saying their goodbyes because the Elon Musk (00:20:42): site was gonna melt down and Yep. Totally failing. And, all the journalists left. Yeah. And which is Jason Calacanis (00:20:49): if you ever wanna, like, hang out with a bunch of hall monitors, oh my god. Threads is amazing. Every time Elon Musk (00:20:54): I go over there and post, they're, like, Jason Calacanis (00:20:56): big. They're really triggered. But Elon Musk (00:20:58): Yeah. I mean, if you like being condemned repeatedly, then yes. You know, for reasons that make no sense, then Threads is the way to go. Jason Calacanis (00:21:05): Yeah. It's really it's it's the most miserable place on Earth. Disney's the happiest. This is the anti-Disney. Yeah. But if we were to go into government, you went into the Department of Education or pick the department. You've worked with a lot of them, actually. Sure. You you can't go in there and zero-based budget. Okay. We get it. But if you could just pare 2, 3, 4, 5 percent of those organizations, what kind of impact would that have? Elon Musk (00:21:32): Yeah. I mean, I think we'd need to do more than that. I think Jason Calacanis (00:21:35): Ideally, but yeah. Compounding every year, 2, 3% a year, I mean, it would be better than what's happening now. Elon Musk (00:21:43): Yeah. Look. I think we've we've, you know, if Trump wins and I don't know. Obviously, I this this I suspect there are people with mixed feelings about whether that should happen, but, but if but we do have an opportunity, to do kind of a once in a lifetime deregulation and reduction in the size of government. Because because the other thing besides the regulations, America is also going bankrupt extremely quickly. And and nobody seems to everyone seems to be sort of whistling past the graveyard on this one. But David Friedberg (00:22:18): They're all they're all grabbing the silverware. Everyone's stuffing their pockets in the silverware before this Titanic sinks. Elon Musk (00:22:24): So well, you know, the the Defense Department budget is a very big budget. Okay? It's a $1 trillion a year. DOD intel, it's a trillion dollars. And interest payments on the national debt just exceeded the Defense Department budget, but they're over a $1 trillion a year just in interest and rising. We're we're adding a $1 trillion to the net to our debt, which our, you know, kids and grandkids are gonna have to pay somehow, you know, every every 3 months. And then soon it's gonna be every 2 months and then every month. And then the only thing we'll be able to pay is interest. Yeah. And and if if this it's it's just, you know, the it's just like a person at scale that has racked up too much credit card debt. And, this this does not this does not have a a good ending. How how many years? So we we have to reduce the spending. Jason Calacanis (00:23:26): Let David Friedberg (00:23:26): me ask one question because I've brought this up a lot, and the counterargument I hear, which I disagree with, but the counterargument I hear from a lot of politicians is if we reduce spending—because right now, if you add up federal, state, and local government spending, it's between 40 and 50 percent of GDP. So nearly half of our economy is supported by government spending, and nearly half of people in the United States are dependent directly or indirectly on government checks, either through contractors that the government pays or they're employed by a government entity. So if you go in and you take too hard an act too fast, you will have significant contraction, job loss, and recession. What's the balancing act, Elon? Just thinking realistically because I'm 100 percent on board with you. The next set of steps, however, assume Trump wins and you become the chief of the DOJ. Jason Calacanis (00:24:25): You know, like, double G. David Friedberg (00:24:27): How, like, how—yeah. And I think the challenge is how quickly can we—yeah, how quickly can we go in? How quickly can things change without without without Jason Calacanis (00:24:38): without Elon Musk (00:24:39): I want that on my business card. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:24:42): Without all the contraction and job loss. Yeah. So I guess how do you really address it when so much of the economy and so many people's jobs and livelihoods are dependent on government spending? Elon Musk (00:24:52): Well, I mean, I do think it's sort of, you know, it's a false dichotomy. It's not like no government spending is gonna happen. You really have to say, like, is it the right level? And just remember that, you know, any given person, if they are doing things in a less efficient organization versus a more efficient organization, their contribution to the economy, their net output of goods and services will reduce. I mean, you've got a couple of clear examples between East Germany and West Germany, North Korea and South Korea. I mean, North Korea, they're starving. South Korea, it's, like, amazing. It's the future. David Friedberg (00:25:32): It's a compounding effect of productivity gains. Elon Musk (00:25:34): Yeah. Yeah. It's night and day. Yeah. And so in North Korea, you've got 100% government. And in South Korea, you've got probably, I don't know, 40% government. It's not zero. Jason Calacanis (00:25:44): Yeah. Elon Musk (00:25:44): And yet you've got a standard of living that is probably 10 times higher in South Korea. At least. At least. Exactly. And then East and West Germany, in West Germany, you had just thinking in terms of cars, I mean, you had BMW, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, and in East Germany, which is a random line on a map, the only car you could get was a Trabant, which is basically a lawnmower with a shell on it. Mhmm. And it was extremely unsafe. There was a 20-year wait. So you're, like, you know, put your kid on the list Jason Calacanis (00:26:21): as soon Elon Musk (00:26:21): as they're conceived. Jason Calacanis (00:26:23): As soon as they're conceived. Elon Musk (00:26:24): And even then, only, I think, you know, a quarter of people maybe got this lousy car. And it's just the same, and so that's just an interesting example of, like, basically the same people, different operating system. Yeah. And it's not like West Germany was some, you know, capitalist heaven. It was quite socialist, actually. So, when you look, you know, probably it was half government in West Germany and 100% government in East Germany. And again, it's sort of a, I'd like to call it at least a 5 to 10x standard of living difference, and even qualitatively vastly better. And it's obviously, you know, so many people have this, amazingly in this modern era, this debate as to which system is better. Well, I'll tell you which system is better. The one that doesn't need to build the wall to keep people in. Okay? That's how you can tell. Okay? Yeah. It's a dead giveaway. Spoiler alert. Dead giveaway. So they climb the wall to get out Jason Calacanis (00:27:27): or come in. Elon Musk (00:27:28): You have to build a barrier to keep people in. That is the bad system. Yeah. It wasn't West Berlin that built the wall. Okay? They were like, you know, anyone who wants to flee West Berlin, go ahead. Speaking of walls. So, you know, and if you look at sort of the flux of boats from Cuba, there's a large number of boats from Cuba and there's a bunch of free boats that anyone can take to go back to Cuba. They're like Jason Calacanis (00:27:57): Plenty of seats. Elon Musk (00:27:57): There's like, hey. Wow. An abandoned boat. I could use this boat to go to Cuba where they have communism. Awesome. Yes. And yet nobody picks up those boats and does it. Amazing. So you've given this a lot of thought. Yeah. Wait. So your point David Friedberg (00:28:13): is jobs will be created. If we cut government spending in half, yes. Jobs will be created fast enough to make up for, right, just to count. Yes. Elon Musk (00:28:20): So yeah. Obviously, you know, I'm not suggesting that people, you know, have, like, immediately, you know, tossed out with no severance and, you know, can't now can't pay their mortgage. Then you see some reasonable off ramp, where plan. Yeah. Yeah. So a reasonable off ramp where, you know, they're still, you know, earning they're still receiving money, but have, like, I don't know, a year or two to find jobs in the private sector, which they will find, and then they will be in a different operating system. Again, you can see the difference. East Germany was incorporated to West Germany. Living standards in East Germany rose dramatically. Jason Calacanis (00:28:56): Well, so in four years, if you could shrink the size of the government with Trump, what would be a good target just in terms of, like, ballpark? Elon Musk (00:29:05): I mean, are you trying to get me assassinated before this even happens? Jason Calacanis (00:29:08): No. No. Pick a low number. Elon Musk (00:29:10): I mean, you know, there's that old phrase "go postal." I mean, it was like they might. Yeah. On me. Jason Calacanis (00:29:15): So keep the post office. Elon Musk (00:29:16): I mean, I'm gonna need a harbor security detail, guys. Yes. I mean the sheer number of disgruntled workers for former government employees is, you know, for one quite a scary number. I mean, I might not make it. You know? Jason Calacanis (00:29:30): I was saying low low digits every year for four years would be palatable. Yeah. And I like your give an offer. Elon Musk (00:29:35): The thing is that if it's not done, like, if you have a once-in-a-lifetime or once-in-a-generation opportunity and you don't take serious action, and then you have four years to get it done, and then and if it doesn't get done, then Jason Calacanis (00:29:50): How serious is Trump about this? Like, you've talked to Elon Musk (00:29:53): him about it. Yeah? Yeah. I think he's very serious about it. Got it. And, no, I think, actually, the reality is that if we get rid of nonsense regulations and shift people from the government sector to the private sector, we will have immense prosperity, and I think we'll have a golden age in this country. And it'll be fantastic. Jason Calacanis (00:30:15): Can we, David Friedberg (00:30:16): can we talk about SpaceX? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:30:21): You have a bunch of critical milestones coming up. Elon Musk (00:30:23): Yeah. In fact, there's an important, very exciting launch that is maybe happening tonight. So if the weather is holding up, then I'm gonna leave here, head to Cape Canaveral for the Polaris Dawn mission, which is a private mission funded by Jared Isaacman. And he's an awesome guy. And this will be the first time, the first commercial spacewalk, and it'll be at the highest altitude since Apollo. So it's the furthest from Earth that anyone's gone. David Friedberg (00:31:04): And you know what comes after that? Let's assume that's successful. Elon Musk (00:31:08): I sure hope so, man. Jason Calacanis (00:31:12): No pressure. Elon Musk (00:31:17): Yeah. We're, you know, absolute, you know, astronaut, prior astronaut safety is, man, if I would like all the wishes I could say about that, would be the one to put on. So, you know, space is dangerous. So the, yeah. I mean, the next milestone after that would be the next flight of Starship, which, you know, Starship is, the next flight of Starship is ready to fly. We are waiting for regulatory approval. You know? Yeah. It it it it really should not be possible giant rocket faster than the paper can move from one desk to another. Jason Calacanis (00:32:09): That stamp is really hard. Approved. Yeah. Have you ever seen that movie Zootopia? David Friedberg (00:32:16): Have you ever seen that movie Zootopia? There's, like, a sloth. Jason Calacanis (00:32:19): Yeah. I'm, like, really? Sloth. For the approval. Yeah. Yeah. Elon Musk (00:32:23): Then they accidentally tell a joke, and then and then I was, like, oh, no. This is good. Jason Calacanis (00:32:26): Here we go. Elon Musk (00:32:27): This is gonna take a long time. David Friedberg (00:32:28): Sorry. Sorry. Elon Musk (00:32:29): But, yeah, the the zoo Zootopia, you know, if you know, the funny thing is, like so I went to the DMV, about, I don't know, year later after Zootopia and to get my, whatever, license renewal. And the guy in a in a exercise of incredible self-awareness had the sloth from Zootopia in his, in his cube. In in in his cube, and he was actually swift. Jason Calacanis (00:32:53): Yeah. With that with a mandate, Beat the sloth. David Friedberg (00:32:57): Yeah. Yeah. No. Be personal agency. Personal agency. Elon Musk (00:33:00): No. I mean, sometimes people, like, think the, you know, the government is more competent than it than it is. I'm not saying that there aren't competent people in the government. They're just in an operating system that is inefficient. Once you move them to a more efficient operating system, their output is dramatically greater, as we've seen, you know, when East Germany was reintegrated into with West Germany and the same people were vastly more prosperous with a basically half-capitalist operating system. So, but, I mean, for a lot of people who live there, like, they have maybe most direct experience with the government is the DMV. And then the important thing to remember is that the government is the DMV at scale. Right. Got the government. Jason Calacanis (00:33:53): Got the mental picture. Elon Musk (00:33:54): How much do you wanna scale it? Yeah. David Friedberg (00:33:58): Yeah. Elon, sorry. Can you go back to Chamath's question on Starship? So you announced just the other day Starship going to Mars in two years. Elon Musk (00:34:07): And by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David Friedberg (00:34:10): Yeah. Yeah. And then, four years for a crewed, aspirational launch, in the next window. And how much is the government involved in that? Elon Musk (00:34:18): I'm not I'm not saying, like, say you watch by these, not you know? But these, but it based on our current progress with Starship, we're able to successfully reach orbit last twice. We were able to achieve soft landings of the booster and the ship in water, and that's despite the ship having, you know, half its flaps coked off. You can see the video on the platform. It's quite exciting. So, you know, we we think we'll be able to launch reliably and repeatedly and quite quickly. And the fundamental holy grail breakthrough for rocketry, the fundamental breakthrough that is needed for life to become multiplanetary, is a rapidly reusable, reliable rocket. David Friedberg (00:35:10): For a Elon Musk (00:35:10): pirate. For a pirate somehow. Throw a pirate in there. So Starship is the first rocket design where success is one of the possible outcomes with full reusability. So for, you know, for any given project, you have to say, this is the circle to the right Venn diagram. Here's a circle, and it is success. The success dot in the circle is success in the set of possible outcomes. That, you know, sounds pretty obvious, but there are often projects where success is not in the set of possible outcomes. And so Starship not only has full reusability in the set of possible outcomes, it is being proven with each launch. And I'm confident it will succeed. It's simply a matter of time. And, you know, if if we we can get some improvement in the speed of regulation, we we could actually move a lot faster. So that would that would be very helpful. And and in fact, if if this if not if something isn't done about reducing regulation and and sort of speeding up approvals and to be clear, I'm not talking about anything unsafe. It's simply the processing of the safe thing can be done at a as as fast as the rocket is built, not slower, then, then then we could become a space faring civilization and a multi planet species and ultimate and and be out there among the stars in the future. And there's, you know, it's it's it's just very like, it's incredibly important that we have things that that we find inspiring, that you look to the future and say the future is gonna be better than the past, things to look forward to. And, like, kids are a good way to assess this. Like, what are kids fired up about? And if you can say, you know, you could be a national hero on Mars. You could maybe one day go beyond the solar system. We could make Star Trek Starfleet Academy real. That is an exciting future. That is inspiring. You just, I mean, you need things that move your heart. Right. Jason Calacanis (00:37:40): Yeah. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. Let's do it. Fuck. I mean, Elon Musk (00:37:48): Like, life can't just be about solving one miserable problem after another. There's gotta be things that you look forward to as well. Jason Calacanis (00:37:54): Yeah. And do you think you might have to move it to a different jurisdiction to move faster? I've always wondered if, like, Elon Musk (00:38:01): It's and rocket technology is considered an advanced weapons technology, so we can't just go do it, you know, in Jason Calacanis (00:38:07): another country. Yes. Yeah. Interesting. And if we don't do it, other countries could do it. I mean, they're so far behind us, but theoretically, there is a national security justification here. If somebody can put their thinking caps on, do we want to have this technology that you're building, the team's working so hard on, stolen by other countries, and then, you know, maybe they don't have as much red tape? Elon Musk (00:38:31): I I wish people were trying to steal it. So that no no one's trying to steal it. It's just just too this is too it's too crazy, basically. Jason Calacanis (00:38:44): And that's for you. Elon Musk (00:38:44): Yeah. It's way too crazy. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:38:46): Elon, what do you think is going on that led to Boeing building the Starliner the way that they did? They were able to get it up. Jason Calacanis (00:38:59): But not complete. David Friedberg (00:39:00): But can't complete. They can't finish. Can't finish. And now you're saying Jason Calacanis (00:39:04): gonna have Elon Musk (00:39:04): to go up and finish. Well, I mean, I think Boeing is a company that actually does so much business with the government. They have sort of impedance match to the government. So they're, like, basically one notch away from the government. Maybe two. They're not far from the government from an efficiency standpoint because they derive so much of their revenue from the government. And a lot of people think, well, SpaceX is super dependent on the government and, actually, no. Most of our revenue is commercial. So, and there's been, I think at least up until perhaps recently because they have a new CEO who actually shows up in the factory. Yeah. And the CEO before that, I think, had a degree in accounting and never went to the factory and didn't know how airplanes flew. So I think if you are in charge of a company that makes airplanes fly and spacecraft go to orbit, you need to know what? Then it can't be a total mystery as to how they work. Yeah. So, you know, I'm like, sure. If somebody's like running Coke or Pepsi and they're, like, great at marketing or whatever, that's fine because it's not a sort of technology-dependent business. You know, or if they're running a financial consulting and their degree is in accounting, that makes sense. But I think, you know, if you're the cavalry captain, you should know how to ride a horse. Jason Calacanis (00:40:46): Pretty basic. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good deal. Elon Musk (00:40:50): It's like it's disconcerting if the cavalry captain just falls off the horse. You know? He's scared of horses. I'm sorry. I'm scared of horses. It gets on backwards. I'm like, oops. Oops. David Sacks (00:41:03): Shifting gears to AI. Peter was here earlier, and he was talking about how so far the only company to really make money off AI is Nvidia with the chips. Do you have a sense yet of where you think the big applications will be from AI? Is it gonna be enabling self-driving? Is it gonna be enabling robots? Is it transforming industries? I mean, it's still, I think, early in terms of where the big business impact is gonna be. Do you have a sense Elon Musk (00:41:39): yet? I I mean, I think I think the the the the spending on AI probably runs ahead of I mean, it does run ahead of the revenue right now. That's there's no question about that. But the rate of improvement of AI is faster than any technology I've ever seen by far. And and and it it's, I mean, like, the the the for example, a Turing test used to be a thing. Now, you know, your basic open-source random LLM, you're writing on a frigging Raspberry Pi, probably could beat the Turing test. So I think actually the good future of AI is one of immense prosperity where there is an age of abundance, no shortage of goods and services. Everyone can have whatever they want except for things we artificially define to be scarce, like some special artwork. But anything that is a manufactured good or provided service, I think with the advent of AI plus robotics, the cost of goods and services will trend to zero. I'm not saying it will be actually zero, but everyone will be able to have anything they want. Mhmm. That's the good future. Of course, in my view, that's probably 80% likely. So look on the bright side. Probably 20% in David Sacks (00:43:24): the back. Elon Musk (00:43:24): 20% probably of annihilation. Nothing. David Sacks (00:43:28): Is the 20%, like, what does that look like? Elon Musk (00:43:32): No, man. I mean, frankly, I do have to engage in some degree of deliberate suspension of disbelief with respect to AI in order to sleep well. And even then, because I think the actual issue, the most likely issue, is, like, well, how do we find meaning in a world where AI can do everything we can do a bit better? That is perhaps the bigger challenge. Although, you know, at this point, I know more and more people who are retired and they seem to enjoy that life. So, but I think that maybe there'll be some crisis of meaning, like, because the computer can do everything you can do but better. So maybe that'll be a challenge. But really, you need the sort of end effectors. You need the autonomous cars, and you need the sort of humanoid robots or, you know, general-purpose robots. But once you have general-purpose humanoid robots, and autonomous vehicles, you really can build anything. And I think that there's no actual limit to the size of the economy. I mean, it's obviously, you know, the mass of Earth, you know, like that O'Neill cylinder limit. But, you know, the economy is really just the average productivity per person times the number of people. That's the economy. And if you've got humanoid robots that can do, you know, where there's no real limit on the number of humanoid robots, and they can operate very intelligently, then there's no actual limit to the economy, you know, there's no meaningful limit to the economy. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:21): You guys just turned on Colossus, which is, like, the largest private compute cluster, I guess, of GPUs anywhere. Is that right? Elon Musk (00:45:29): It's the most powerful supercomputer of any kind. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:45:34): Which sort of speaks to what David said and kind of what Peter said, which is a lot of the kind of economic value so far of AI is entirely gone to NVIDIA. But there are people with alternatives, and you're actually one with an alternative. Now you have a very specific case because Dojo is really about images and large images, huge video. So Elon Musk (00:45:55): Yeah. I mean, the Tesla problem is different from the, you know, the sort of LLM problem. The nature of the intelligence actually is actually and what matters in the AI is different, to the point you just made, which is that in Tesla's case, the context is very long. So we've got gigabytes of context. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:46:18): Gigabyte context centers. Yeah. Elon Musk (00:46:19): Yeah. You got, you know, Jason Calacanis (00:46:21): sort Elon Musk (00:46:21): of, I Chamath Palihapitiya (00:46:23): was just bringing it up. Elon Musk (00:46:24): Kind of billions of tokens of context. Not not any amount of context because you've got, 7 7 cameras. And if if you've got several, you know, let's say you've got a a minute of several high high def cameras, then that's gigabytes. So you you need to compress and so the Tesla problem is you gotta compress a gigantic context, into the the pixels that are that actually matter, and, you know, and and and condense that over a time and so you've got a in in both, the time dimension, the space dimension, you've got to compress the pixels, in in space and pixels over in time, and and and then and then have that inference done on a tiny computer, relatively speaking, a small, like, you know, a few 100 watts, it's a Tesla designed, AI inference computer, which is probably still the best. There isn't a better thing we could buy from suppliers. So the Tesla-designed AI inference computer that's in the cars is better than anything we could buy from any supplier. Just by the way, that's kind of a Oh, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:29): By the way. Elon Musk (00:47:29): The Tesla AI chip team is extremely good. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:32): You guys, in the design, there was a technical paper and there was a deck that somebody on your team from Tesla published, and it was stunning to me. You designed your own transport control layer over Ethernet. You're like, Ethernet's not good enough for us. Elon Musk (00:47:45): Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:47:45): You have this TTCoe or something, and you're like, oh, we're just gonna reinvent Ethernet and, like, string these chips. It's pretty incredible stuff that's happening over there. Elon Musk (00:47:53): Yeah. No. The Tesla chip design team is extremely, extremely good. So, Chamath Palihapitiya (00:48:02): But is there a world where, for example, other people over time that need, you know, some sort of, like, video use case or image use case? Because theoretically, you know, you'd say, oh, why not? You know, I have some extra cycles over here. So which should kind of make you a competitor of NVIDIA. It's not intentionally per se, but Elon Musk (00:48:19): Yeah. I mean, there's training and inference, and we do have those two projects at Tesla. We've got Dojo, which is the training computer, and then our inference chip, which is in every car inference computer. So and at Dojo, we've only had Dojo 1. Dojo 2 is, you know, we should have Dojo 2 in volume towards the end of next year. And that will be, we think, sort of comparable to a B200-type system, a training system. And, you know, so there's some potential for that to be used as a service. But, like, Dojo is just kind of like—I mean, I guess I have some improved confidence in Dojo. But I think we won't really know how good Dojo is until probably version 3. Like, it usually takes three major iterations on a technology for it to be excellent. And we'll only have the second major iteration next year. The third iteration, I don't know, maybe late 2026 or something like that. Jason Calacanis (00:49:46): How's the Optimus project going? I remember when we talked last, and you said this publicly, that it's doing some light testing inside the factory. Elon Musk (00:49:56): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:49:57): It's actually being useful. What's the build of materials and when you know, for something like that at scale, so when you start it like you're making the model 3 now and there's a million of them coming off the factory line, what would the would they cost? 20, 30, $40,000, you think? Elon Musk (00:50:11): Yeah. I mean, what I mean, I've discovered really that, you know, anything made in sufficient volume will asymptotically approach the cost of its materials. So now there's I should say some things are constrained by the cost of intellectual property and, like, paying for patents and stuff. So a lot of, you know, what's in a chip is, like, paying royalties, and depreciation of the chip fab. So but the actual marginal cost of the chips is very low. So so so Optimus, it obviously is humanoid robot, it it is it weighs much less and is much smaller than a car. So the you could expect that in high volume, and and I would say that you also probably need 3 3 production versions for Optimus. So you need to refine the design 3 at least 3 major times, and and then you need to scale production to sort of the 1,000,000 unit plus per year level. And I think at that point, the cost the the, you know, the the the labor and materials on Optimus is probably not much more than $10,000. Jason Calacanis (00:51:26): Yeah. And that's a decade-long journey, maybe? Elon Musk (00:51:28): Basically, think of it like the Optimus will cost less than a small car. Jason Calacanis (00:51:35): Right. Elon Musk (00:51:36): So at scale volume with the three major iterations of technology and so if a small car costs twenty-five thousand dollars, you know, it's probably, like, I don't know, twenty thousand dollars for an Optimus for a humanoid robot that can be your buddy like a combination of R2-D2 and C-3PO, but better. David Friedberg (00:51:58): Yeah. I mean, you know, Elon Musk (00:51:59): that's that's and I I honestly, I think people are gonna get really attached to their humanoid robot because, I mean, like, you look at sort of you watch Star Wars, and it's like R2-D2 and C-3PO. I love those guys. Yeah. You know, they're awesome. And their their personality and and, I mean, and all R2 could do is just beep at you. Right. And I couldn't Yeah. Guys couldn't speak English. Maybe C-3PO could translate the beeps. You know? So you're in Jason Calacanis (00:52:24): year 2 of that if you did 2 or 3 years per iteration or something? It's a decade-long journey for this to hit some sort of scale. Elon Musk (00:52:32): I I would say major iterations are less than 2 years. So okay. It's it's probably on the order of 5 5 years. Yeah. Maybe 6 to get to a million units a year. Jason Calacanis (00:52:46): And at that price point, everybody can afford 1 on planet Earth. I mean, it's going to be that 1 to 1, 2 to 1? What do you think ultimately if we're sitting here in 30 years, the number of robots on the planet versus humans? Elon Musk (00:52:59): Yeah. I think the number of robots will vastly exceed the number of humans. Jason Calacanis (00:53:01): Vastly. Yeah. Elon Musk (00:53:02): Vastly exceed I mean, you have to say, like, who who would not want their robot buddy? Everyone wants a robot buddy. You know, it's just like especially if it can, you know, you know, it can take care of your your take your dog for a walk, it could, you know, mow mow the lawn. It it could watch your kids. It could, you know, like, it could it could teach your kids. It could it could we could David Friedberg (00:53:29): also send it to Mars. Yeah. Absolutely. We could send a lot of robots to Mars to do the work needed to Yeah. Make it a colonized planet for you. Jason Calacanis (00:53:37): And Elon Musk (00:53:37): Mars is already the robot planet. Plays, like, a whole bunch of Jason Calacanis (00:53:39): Yeah. Elon Musk (00:53:39): You know, robots, like, rovers and it's only robots. Helicopter. Yes. Only robots. Yeah. So, yeah. No. I think the sort of useful humanoid robot opportunity is the single biggest opportunity ever. Because if you assume, like, that I mean, the ratio of humanoid robots to humans is gonna be at least 2 to 1, maybe 3 to 1. Because everybody will want one, and then there'll be a bunch of robots that you don't see that are making goods and services. Jason Calacanis (00:54:14): And you Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:14): think it's a general one, generalized robot that then learns how to do different tasks? Or? Elon Musk (00:54:19): Yeah. David Friedberg (00:54:20): Hey. I Elon Musk (00:54:20): mean, we we are a generalized, ro Yeah. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:23): We're a generalized we're just Elon Musk (00:54:24): We're just made of meat. Yeah. You know? Chamath Palihapitiya (00:54:27): We're a meat bot. Elon Musk (00:54:28): Generalized meat bot. Yeah. I mean, operating my meat puppet. Jason Calacanis (00:54:31): You know? Elon Musk (00:54:33): So, yeah. We are actually you Jason Calacanis (00:54:35): can have it together. Elon Musk (00:54:36): And rather, it turns out, like, as we're designing Optimus, we sort of learn more and more about why humans are shaped the way they're shaped. And, you know, and why we have five fingers and why your little finger is smaller than, you know, your index finger. You know, obviously why you have opposable thumbs, but also why, for example, the muscles, the major muscles that operate your hand are actually in your forearm, and your fingers are primarily operated like the muscles that actuate your fingers are located—the vast majority of your finger strength is actually coming from your forearm, and your fingers are being operated by tendons, little strings. So the current version of the Optimus hand has the actuators in the hand and has only eleven degrees of freedom. So it can't—it doesn't have all the degrees of freedom of the human hand, which has, depending on how you count it, roughly twenty-five degrees of freedom. And and and and and it's also like not strong enough in certain ways because the actuators have to fit in the hand. So the next generation Optimus hand, which we have in prototype form, the the actuators have moved to the forearm just like a human, and they operate the the fingers through cables just like the human hand. And, and and it and then the next generation hand has 22 degrees of freedom, which we think is enough to do almost anything that a human can do. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:56:18): And presumably, I think it was written that X and Tesla may work together and provide services, but my immediate thought went to, oh, if you just provide a Grok to the robot, then the robot has a personality and can process voice and video and images and all of that stuff. Jason Calacanis (00:56:34): Yeah. As a Elon Musk (00:56:35): wrap here. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (00:56:37): I think, you know, everybody talks about all the projects you're working on, but people don't know you have a great sense of humor. Elon Musk (00:56:45): That's not true. Jason Calacanis (00:56:46): Oh, you do. You do. People don't see it, but I would say one of, I know for me, the funniest weeks of my life or one of the funniest was when you did SNL, and we got, and you, yeah. I got to tag along. Maybe you saw it. Maybe behind the scenes is, like, some of your funniest recollections of that chaotic, insane week when we laughed for 12 hours a day. It was a little terrorizing on the first couple of days. But Elon Musk (00:57:13): Yeah. I was a bit worried at the beginning there because, frankly, nothing was funny. Jason Calacanis (00:57:20): Day 1 was rough. Elon Musk (00:57:21): Rough. Yeah. So, I mean Chamath Palihapitiya (00:57:26): It was like a rule, but can't you guys just say it? Just say the stuff that got cut. Jason Calacanis (00:57:30): You need. David Sacks (00:57:32): The funniest skits were the ones that didn't let you do. Chamath Palihapitiya (00:57:34): That's what Jason Calacanis (00:57:34): I'm saying. David Friedberg (00:57:34): Can you just say Jason Calacanis (00:57:35): a couple of funny ones, yeah, that they didn't let David Friedberg (00:57:37): you do. You can say it so that he doesn't get Elon Musk (00:57:39): I mean, dude, how much time do we have here? Jason Calacanis (00:57:40): Well, we should just give one or two because there was in your mind, which one do we regret most, not getting on air? Do you Elon Musk (00:57:50): really wanna hear that? I mean Jason Calacanis (00:57:54): I mean, it was a little spicy. It was a little funny. Elon Musk (00:57:59): Okay. Jason Calacanis (00:58:01): Here we go. Elon Musk (00:58:02): Alright. Here we go, guys. Alright. So one of the things that I think everyone's been sort of wondering this whole time is, is Saturday Night Live actually live? Like live. Live live live. Or do they have, like, a delay or, like, just in case, you know, there's a wardrobe malfunction or something like that? Is it like a, you know, truly live, 5-second delay? What's really going on? But there's a there's a way to test this. Jason Calacanis (00:58:33): Right. We can't walk away. Elon Musk (00:58:36): There's a way to test this, which is we don't tell them what's going on. As I walk on, I said, this is the script I'll throw on the ground. We're gonna find out tonight, right now. Jason Calacanis (00:58:48): If Saturday Night Live. Elon Musk (00:58:49): If Saturday Night Live is actually live. And the way that we're going to do this is I'm going to take my cock out. This is the greatest worst way ever. And if if if if you see my cock, you know it's true. And if you don't, it's been a lie. It's been Jason Calacanis (00:59:17): a lie. All these years? Elon Musk (00:59:19): All these years. Now this is we're gonna bust them right now. Jason Calacanis (00:59:22): And this we're pitching this Yeah. Elon Musk (00:59:24): Yeah. So we're pitching this. Jason Calacanis (00:59:26): On Zoom. Yeah. Elon Musk (00:59:26): We're pitching this on Zoom on, like, the Monday after we're, like, like, yeah. We're, like, kinda hungover from the weekend. And we're, like, pitching this in, like, noon. Yeah. And and and it's, it it's, you know, Jason's on, and, Mike and you. Yeah. And and and Mike, you know, since she got, like, you know, who my friends who I think are sort of, you know, quite funny. You know, Jason's quite funny. I think, like, like, Jason's the closest thing to Cartman that exists in the real in Jason Calacanis (00:59:52): real life. Elon Musk (00:59:55): We have a joke going that he's Butters and I'm Cartman. Yeah. And then my friend Mike's, it's really funny too. So we come in just like Jason Calacanis (01:00:08): guns blazing Elon Musk (01:00:08): With, like, ideas. And we didn't realize, like, actually, you know, that's not how it works. And that's normally, like, actors, and they just get told what to do. I'm like, oh. Right. You mean we can't just do funny things that we thought of? What? Jason Calacanis (01:00:24): They're watching this, and on the Zoom, they're aghast at the people's pitch. Elon Musk (01:00:29): Yeah. That's silent. Like, so I'm like and I'm like and I was like, is this thing working? Jason Calacanis (01:00:33): It's like, are we muted? Elon Musk (01:00:35): Is our mic on? Jason Calacanis (01:00:37): And they're like, we hear you. Elon Musk (01:00:38): Yeah. And then after a long silence, Mike just says the word crickets. Jason Calacanis (01:00:43): Crickets? And they're not listening. Elon Musk (01:00:45): And not even a chuckle. I'm like, what's going Jason Calacanis (01:00:48): on? Elon explains the punch line. Elon Musk (01:00:50): Exactly. So there's more to it. Okay? Yes. That's just the beginning. So Elon says, so then I'm like, so I said, like, I'm gonna reach down Jason Calacanis (01:01:10): into my pants. Elon Musk (01:01:11): Into my pants. Jason Calacanis (01:01:12): And I'm a Elon Musk (01:01:12): and and I stick my hand on my pants, and I'm gonna and I'm and I'm gonna pull my card, and I tell this to the audience. And the audience is gonna be like, go what? Right. And and and and then and then and then and then I pull out a a a baby rooster. You know? Yes. And it's like, okay. This is kinda PG. You know, it's not that bad. It's like, this is my tiny cock. And and and it's like, what do you think? Jason Calacanis (01:01:45): And so then Elon Musk (01:01:46): And do you think it's a nice cock? I mean, I like Jason Calacanis (01:01:48): it. Pitch. Chamath Palihapitiya (01:01:49): Pitch. Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:01:49): I'm like and then Kate McKinnon walks out. Elon Musk (01:01:52): Yeah. Exactly. Jason Calacanis (01:01:53): And I'm like, oh, no. But you have you heard half of it. Kate McKinnon comes out Yeah. And she says, Elon, Elon Musk (01:01:57): which I Jason Calacanis (01:01:58): expected, you would have a bigger cock. Elon Musk (01:02:00): Yeah. I was like, I I don't mean to dissuade you, Kate, but, yeah, but I I I hope you like it anyway. David Friedberg (01:02:08): And then Elon Musk (01:02:09): but but Kate's gotta come out with with with her cat. Okay? Jason Calacanis (01:02:12): Right. Elon Musk (01:02:13): So And Kate says You can see where this is you can see where this is going. And I say nice wow. That's that's a that's a that's a nice pussy you've got there, Kate. Wow. That's amazing. It looks a little wet. Was it raining outside? Jason Calacanis (01:02:31): And then And and just do do Elon Musk (01:02:34): do you mind if I stroke your pussy? Is that cool? It's like, oh, no, Elon. Actually, can I hold your cock? Of of course, Kate. You you definitely hold my cock. And and then, you know, we exchange, and I think just the audio version of this is pretty good. Right. And and and, you know, and she was like, wow. You I I I really like, stroking your cock. And I was like, I Jason Calacanis (01:03:00): I and then Elon says, well, I'm really enjoying stroking your pussy. Elon Musk (01:03:05): Yes. Of course. And, yeah. So, you know Jason Calacanis (01:03:09): They're looking at us like, oh my god. What have we done inviting these lunatics on the program? Elon Musk (01:03:16): Yeah. And then they they said they said, like, well, it is, it is Mother's Day. Jason Calacanis (01:03:23): It's Mother's Day. We might not want to go with this one. Lot of moms Elon Musk (01:03:27): in the audience. And I'm like, well, that's a good point. Sure. Fair. It might be a bit uncomfortable for all the moms in the audience. Maybe. I don't know. Jason Calacanis (01:03:34): I don't know. Maybe they'll dig it. Elon Musk (01:03:35): Maybe they'll like it. So Jason Calacanis (01:03:38): yeah. Yeah. That was the, that's the cold open that didn't make it. We didn't get that on the air. But, we did fight for Doge. Yes. And we got Doge on there. Elon Musk (01:03:54): I mean, there's a bunch of things that I said that were just not on the script. Like, they have these, like, cue cards for what you're supposed to say, and I just didn't say it. I just went off the rails. Jason Calacanis (01:04:01): Yeah. They didn't see that coming. Elon Musk (01:04:04): Yeah. It's live. Jason Calacanis (01:04:07): Well, it's live. And, so Elon wanted to do Doge. This is the other one. He wanted to do Doge on late night, and he says, hey, Jake, how can you make sure Elon Musk (01:04:19): Oh, yeah. I want to, yeah, I want to do the Dogefather. Like, you sort of redo the, you know, that scene from The Godfather. I mean, you kinda need the music to cue things up. Jason Calacanis (01:04:27): Yeah. You bring me on my daughter's wedding. This, and you ask for dogs. Yeah. Elon Musk (01:04:36): You got Marlon Brando's gift. Jason Calacanis (01:04:38): You Bitcoin, but you want dogs. Elon Musk (01:04:39): Exactly. It's you really gotta set the mood. You got to have a tuxedo and this whole sort of drop off this and the Jason Calacanis (01:04:45): the dojo. Elon Musk (01:04:45): And you got to have, like, prompt, like, Marlon Brando. Jason Calacanis (01:04:48): Yeah. And Elon Musk (01:04:51): I said, you come to me on this day of my Dogefather wedding, and you ask me for your private keys. Are you even a friend? You call me the Dogefather. So, Bonasera. Bonasera. Yeah. So that's potential. Jason Calacanis (01:05:13): That great potential. So they come to me, and I'm talking to Colin Jost, who's got a great sense of humor. He's amazing. He loves Elon. And he's like, we can't do it because of the law and stuff like that. Elon Musk (01:05:24): And the law? Jason Calacanis (01:05:25): The law and liability. So I said, it's okay. Elon called Comcast. And yeah. He put in an offer, and they just accepted it. Yeah. He just bought NBC, so it's fine. Elon Musk (01:05:38): Yeah. And Jason Calacanis (01:05:40): Colin Jost looks at me, and I told him it's so good. And he's like, you're serious? I'm like, yeah. We own NBC now. Yeah. And he's like, okay. Well, that kinda changes things, doesn't it? And I'm like, absolutely. We're gonna go on Doge. Yeah. And then he's like, you're fucking with me. And I'm like, I'm fucking with you. Elon Musk (01:06:00): Or are we? Jason Calacanis (01:06:01): Or are we? It was the greatest. Yeah. Week of and that, like, is, like, two of 10 stories. Yeah. Elon Musk (01:06:09): We gotta, yeah. We Jason Calacanis (01:06:09): gotta find out the other eight. Elon Musk (01:06:11): Yeah. Jason Calacanis (01:06:11): But it was and I was just so happy for you to see you have a great week of just joy and fun in letting go because you were launching rockets. You're dealing with so much bullshit in your life. To have those moments. To share them and just laugh, it was just so great. Elon Musk (01:06:28): And, Jason Calacanis (01:06:28): more of those moments. I think we gotta we gotta get you back on SNL. Who wants to get back on SNL one more time? Alright, ladies and gentlemen. Our bestie, Elon Musk.